Posted on 11/19/2001 6:09:34 AM PST by Notwithstanding
In 1998, Ramerman and two priests, the Rev. James Callan and the Rev. Enrique Cadena, as well as many parishioners, split from Corpus Christi in Rochester. It resulted in the formation of Spiritus Christi, a 1,500-person congregation independent of the diocese that celebrates Sunday Mass at Hochstein Music School downtown. Ramerman's first Mass as a priest is 8 a.m. today. While she is considered an Old Catholic priest, Spiritus Christi remains an independent church. The auburn-haired mother of three now goes by the title of the Rev. Mary Ramerman. Parishioners need not call her "father," the traditional name associated with Roman Catholic priests. Rather, just call her "Mary," she said.
I am sorry you feel that way.
(You seem to be unaware of this, and so I wanted to point it out to you.)
how long will it take for the surpessed woman of the world to realize that they are not lesser than males?
See post 55. Thanks.
That's a thoughtful gesture but not very practical. Let's see, since Mary or the other "Saints" you pray to are not omnipresent or omniscient like God, they can only handle 1 prayer at a time. Since you and several million other Catholics are all trying to "get through" at the same time, the odds of getting anything other than a buzy signal are probably greater than 10,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1.
Of course this is assuming they can hear and answer pray in the first place.
"maybe you should shut the hell up and go spread your apostacy elsewhere." - Aristophanes
Yup, just as you were saying, "with charity". LOL!
Pax
Now, again--if you can step aside hating me and my faith--Here is an explanation in regard to the Role of Mary and the church.
In a true christian marriage the couples "Die to self," so to speak. Meaning that they become one with each other. Obviously this doesn't mean they physically take on each others attributes. It is spiritual. Each spouse lives for the other. The bond is eternal in the eyes of God.
The bond that occured when Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit was an eternal marital union. She is the Mother of Christ and her Spouse has not abandoned her. She is the visible aspect of her Spouse, the Holy Spirit, and she is powerful in helping get prayers answered. Catholics don't worhip her, we love her and ask her intercession.
And quite frankly Mary deserves this love and devotion. She had the spiritual strength of a lion, having to stand under the cross, while a sword of sorrow pierced her heart. She never faltered in her duties, and God saw fit to assume her into heaven BODY AND SOUL. She has a place in my heart.
If you want to discuss my beliefs without spewing hate at me, I will.
Any thoughts about post 251?
I provided you a long and substantive response in post #193. Despite your response here at #203 you haven’t responded to me yet. Are you going to? You made arguments on this thread about what Catholics believe. You posted some quotes. Those quotes have substantively been explained to you. Your ideas have been proven false. I want to know if you now accept that Catholics do not believe Mary is divine, and that the Church does not teach that, or if you are going to be back next week claiming that one of four main tenants of Catholicism is “1. The divine Mary as a substitute for Christ.” If you are, lets see your proof for it, or your explanation for how you arrive there. All you have done so far is post a bunch of disparate quotes that don’t relate to your claim, much less prove it.
So which is it. Do you accept we don’t see her as divine? Or do you retain your position? And if the latter, are you going to refuse to ever discuss the substance of your claim, despite the opportunity, and then come back shortly and make the same false claim again? Such would not be the action of a Christian, that would be the spirit of the Anti-Christ.
God bless,
patent +AMDG
My feeling is that these folk should not let the Church door hit their butts on the way out!! If they don't like the Roman Catholic Church, they are perfectly free to form their own, they just cannot call it Roman Catholic. And they should be CLEAR to everyone what the pew-sitters are getting, and it ain't authentic! If they try to pawn it off as the 'real thing', someone should have them arrested for false advertising.
Jesus devised a direct line of succession with his apostles 'laying on hands' and anointing those who would follow in consultation with their fellows and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That is why Roman Catholic Bishops are not free to ordain whoever their little hearts desire! Or at least and it have it MEAN anything in the Church.
These folks just want things to change to suit them so THEY won't have to be made to feel bad about the sinful choices they may make in life. Well tough cookies folks! God didn't give us the 10 SUGGESTIONS, and I don't think anything He's said since then has changed one iota of the original meanings!
As for the Catholics desire to insist on their own rules, I must agree, and I am not a Catolico.
God saw fit to assume her into heaven BODY AND SOUL
NOWHERE, REPEAT, NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE does it say this happened. THIS IS UTTER, MADE UP FOOLISHNESS.
She is the visible aspect of her Spouse, the Holy Spirit, and she is powerful in helping get prayers answered. Catholics don't worhip her, we love her and ask her intercession.
You completely ignored my basic point. Mary is not omnipresent or omniscient like God, she can not possibly "hear" all of the millions of prayers being offered to her. In reality, she can not hear them at all. Plus this nonsense that she has some kind of "pull" with God or Jesus to help get prayers answered is just so ridiculous. Jesus laid down his life for us, not MARY! He does need to be "coaxed" by his mother on our behalf. The scriptures say that Jesus forever makes intercession for us. His intercession is all sufficient!
Romans 8:34 “Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
Hebrews 7:25 “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”
NOWHERE, REPEAT, NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE does it say this happened. THIS IS UTTER, MADE UP FOOLISHNESS.
We know that after the Crucifixion Mary was cared for by the apostle John (John 19:26-27). Early Christian writings say John went to live at Ephesus and that Mary accompanied him. There is some dispute about where she ended her life; perhaps there, perhaps back at Jerusalem. Neither those cities nor any other claimed her remains, though there are claims about possessing her (temporary) tomb. And why did no city claim the bones of Mary? Apparently because there weren't any bones to claim and people knew it.
I mention this because in the early Christian centuries relics of saints were jealously guarded, highly prized. The bones of those martyred in the Coliseum, for instance, were quickly gathered up and preserved; there are many accounts of this in the biographies of those who gave their lives for the faith. Yet here was Mary, certainly the most privileged all the saints, certainly the most saintly, but we have no record of her bodily remains being venerated anywhere.
The evidence for the of the Assumption, as understood and explained over the centuries by the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, concern not so much scriptural references (there are none that speak even indirectly to the matter of Mary's Assumption, and only a few that deal with the subject of assumptions in general), but rather the fittingness of the privilege. The speculative grounds considered include Mary's freedom from sin, her Motherhood of God, her perpetual virginity, and--the key--her participation in the salvific work of Christ. It seems most fitting that she should attain the full fruit of the Redemption, which is the glorification of the soul and body.
I'll reply to your other points in another reply, thanks.
Maybe God Almighty made it so, because He knew that Mary worship (PURE IDOLATRY), would have been even worse than it is now.
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