Proof of God

A friends question

[Sungirl]

I'd like to ask this question to Freepers to get some answers. A friend of mine will often say she doesn't believe in God....but, I think she is fishing for a reason TO believe. Today she sent me a note from her other friend who states the theory of evolution and that people who believe God put us here are 'brainwashed'. She tells her.... 'Evolution has PROOF...where is the Proof of God?'

Personally, I think evolution has made man evolve....but I also think that the earth and all its resources are not here without a reason and a purpose. There are just too many coincidences to think that it is not planned. Just my thought.

[stlrocket]

Check this link to an Article about a series of Letters to the Editor - which very nicely detail "Why you Should go to Church" Well done.

Why Church

[No One of Consequence]

I'd be glad to supply proof of the existence of God, if you'd first supply proof of the existence of your friend. You might begin your proof with a personal testimony to the existence of your friend. But how could I know whether your testimony was trustworthy. Perhaps you could get others to offer their testimony towards the existence of your friend. But how could I know whether the other testimonies were trustworthy? In the final analysis, to determine the trustworthiness of a testimony, you have to make a judgement as to the character of the people supplying the testimony. Your friend must read the Bible and determine for themselves, whether the people supplying the testimony of God's existence can be trusted. I would like to suggest that in that regard the Bible rings true, because the authors of the Bible present themselves with such unusual honesty concerning there own human failings.

[fish hawk]

Just got back to Maui from two months in Calif. While in Sacramento I saw a great bumper sticker. "the Big Bang Theory, God spoke and BANG, it happened." Aloha

[Goblins]

Since God the Creator created time your question is meaningless as before the creation of time there was no cause and effect relationship.

[groanup]

If matter can be neither created nor destroyed and if the universe is everlasting and eternal, then even if there is no God we will still have eternal life. Statistically we have a one hundred percent chance of repeating this exact existence an infinite number of times. We know that planets are not eternal. We know that stars and asteroids are not eternal. But we do know that the universe is dynamic and changing and that the amount of matter in the universe is essentially unchanging. Thus in an infinite period of time we know that the universe will repeat this exact situation an infinite number of times.

[tortoise]

There is no proof of God. That is what faith means and is; believing without proof. Once you have faith, you can see proof of God's works in everything--without faith, you cannot see his works in anything.

Errrr... Your statement is a logical fallacy known as "affirming the consequent". I hope you realize that replacing "God" with "purple elves", "Satan", or any one of an infinite number of things has the same amount of truth to it in your above statement as a consequence of improper logical construction.

[tortoise]

Cancer, too, serves a purpose. Immortality is an evolutionary dead-end.

Non-sequitur. Evolution requires two processes, variation and selection. Immortality in any practical sense (e.g. you can still die in accidents, etc) would affect neither selection nor variation. Therefore, evolution would still occur even if we did not die of disease or aging.

[tortoise]

I should have said immortality does not STOP selection or variation, and therefore does not stop evolution. Doh!

[Goblins]

Many of the conservation and causality laws that we all learned in basic physics are actually "white lies"; they aren't really true and are adaptations of the real mathematics with all the strange stuff removed.

From my point of view the white lies come with the real mathematics and the creation of fictitious forces.

[tortoise]

From my point of view the white lies come with the real mathematics and the creation of fictitious forces.

And these fictitious forces are what? What qualifies as a fictitious force from your point of view?

[Goblins]

Without proof of God who could be held guilty of going against His divine will? The proof is everywhere and is irrefutable. The whole of human history is evidence to His grand design which He has laid out and made open to us all, not only in His words but even in the very mode of our existance. No one goes to Jesus unless the Father sent them, and no one comes to the Father but through Jesus.

[Dallas]

You can add my son to that list....

I never really understood the amount of love a father could have, until I became one.

[groanup]

Kind of changes your perspective doesn't it. You start using your seatbelt and that putt on the 18th hole for three skins becomes pretty trivial.

[Goblins]

Fictitious forces is the name given (amongst others which you most probably know them by) to describe the perceived changes in motion of objects within non-inertial systems.

[Slick]

It is not a logical fallacy, as the context of the statement makes clear. To spell it out, if you believe, without proof, then you can see "proof" (I should have put quotes) anywhere. If you don't believe, then you will never have "proof" (which of course you cannot have.

I was assuming that the quotes around the second "proof" were not necessary, being readily understood by the context.

[A. Pole]

Wheres the proof of evolution?

God could create man through evolution from amoeba as well as from the literal clay. What counts is the result and the final purpose. If man is made in the image of God his objective should be preserve/restore this image in him rather than reverse back to the ape or to the clay.

[ChemistCat]

There is a very simple test. It requires no money, no missionaries, not even any public act. It helps to have read some scripture, because then you have a clue what questions to ask. Tell your friend: all she needs to do is go to a secret, private place, get down on her knees (yes, it feels silly the first time) and ask the Lord to show the truth. He answered me when I humbled myself to sincerely ask; He'll answer anyone. IT may not be in words, it may just be a feeling, but the answer will be unmistakeable. I really believe this. Otherwise, what kind of God would He be?

AH-HA!!! "Ask Him - He Answers!" It is truly a defining moment in life, and it changes everything (though it won't make things easier, I don't think.) I don't quite get it but so many people won't dare try this simple experiment...my own parents won't.

[dubyagee]

Take a look back at your life. Ask yourself if you've done it on your own, or if you had help.

Personally, when I look back, I know that if I'd done it on my own, I'd be in far worse shape than I am now. Thankfully, once I figured out Who was helping me, and gave my life to Him, it made things much easier.....and much more peaceful.

[tim politicus]

I suppose that thinking, like charity, begins at home. Hopefully I can question myself and my conduct honestly and consistently as well as do for others.

Your point links together thought and freedom. That seemed to unbind my own thinking.

Isn't it thought that makes us free? Without thought are we not merely the conditioned automatons of popular scientific theory...er...um...is that hypothesis? Where thought is lacking, instinct, blind rote rules, no, binds. Perhaps the ancient Christian linkage between light, as a symbol, the eye, the logos (English: reason), and a sword or savior that sets one free is rooted in this connection between thought and freedom AND RESPONSIBILITY.

Consider, what is responsibility but the ability, the freedom to respond, to effect and be affected? What is thought but the movement of consciousness (call it light) from perspective to perspective, in its attempt to liberate the thinker from the ir-responsive sleep of his blind repetitive nature.

Hmmm... I already feel somewhat lighter since reading your post. I think I'll be reflecting for some time on that little illumination you handed me.