Posted on 11/01/2001 9:00:19 AM PST by FormerLib
Edited on 07/12/2004 3:35:48 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
ANNAPOLIS
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
(Deuteronomy 22:13-21)
If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him; And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
Just what does the Constitution have to say about marriage?
So you must also be against all forms of plastic surgery and cosmetic modification: facelifts, circumcision, cleft lip closing, nose jobs, breast implants, hair implants, tattoos, pierced ears, braces, dyed hair, etc. Do you shave off God-given facial hair?
The logical error that you commit is to assume that we are debating in a sort of social vacuum, where one idea starts out equally with any other idea. That is not a rational way to view Society.
The American evolved form of Western Society, that most of us believe in, has in the dynamic progression of the generations, arrived at certain values. Many of these values, it is true, are taken from religious faiths to which most Americans adhere, but the social point is this: Those values represent generations--many, many generations--of decent people struggling to find truth, and what works and does not work in the human condition. While they may sometimes have struggled to a mistake, those long-standing value systems are certainly entitled to the benefit of the doubt, except where they are clearly shown to have erred.
No rational person can suggest that there is any natural reason to equate unnatural sex with the reproductive drives of normal humans. There is no reason whatsoever--none has been adduced--to reject the concepts of both religion and tradition, in favor of a sort of biological anarchy. And mislabbeling those who advocate that anarchy as "gay," contributes nothing whatever to the debate.
One final comment. The freest examination of social concepts, with neither rancour nor cant, was that engaged in by the Jeffersonians in America. And while they did not embrace the stoning pits of the Old Testament--far from it--they still enacted quite severe penalties for Homosexual acts in the same Virginia that firmly established religious toleration among the newly independent Americans.
William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site
Ummmm.
Because some things can not be changed by a vote?
I bet you thought it was cool when the legislature of Idaho came within one vote of decreeing that Pi was to be exactly 3.14 .
Excellent point, deference is given to the possibility that a couple “can” reproduce, regardless of age, ability or capacity. The only thing that those who practice perversion can reproduce are dirt babies and no miracle could ever make feces and semen into a living being.
Do hermaphodites (1 in 4500) have to keep the misshapen genitalia they were born with?
The guys who roasted the babies alive as a sacrifice? Not a whole lotta innocence goin' down over at that house!
(Deuteronomy 22:13-21)
You've cited a section that deals with a husband who attempts to declare that his wife was not a virgin at the time of marriage. The punishment (if the charge is proven) seems a rather extreme method for dealing with someone who's crime was to misrepresent themselves as pure. However, considering that syphilis and many other STD's would have been a death sentence, it probably went a long way towards reducing pre-marital sex.
Again, by the Judaic law, such a person would not be innocent, hence the last line about purging the evil (as my translation defines it).
Wanna whip the dead horse again?
Do hermaphodites (1 in 4500) have to keep the misshapen genitalia they were born with?
I think there is a difference, but it comes down to motivation. Having a cleft palate, for instance, repaired would qualitatively improve a person's life. Repairs of virtually any birth defect or disfigurement would fit into this category. I don't think morality enters into it.
Hermaphrodites would probably be in that category.
Other types of plastic surgery are morally questionable (they ultimately serve vanity), but the law should only be involved in cases of unsafe procedures or unqualified practitioners.
For the purposes of legally defining and protecting marriage, people who have been altered to appear as a sex different than what they were born with will probably be able to marry so long as the man/woman model is met. Guess that might require dissolving marriages where one changes so as to make a same-sex couple.
I do worry about surgery obsessed folks, however. Would it have been wrong to prevent Michael Jackson's most recent mutilation? My word but that nose doesn't even look human anymore!
Most people who talk about Deuteronomy are ignorant of the historical context in which Deuteronomy was written.
In history, Deuteronomy is the first in written event in history where the Hebrew Religion (Jewish, Christian, Muslim Religions can all be trace back to the Hebrew Religion) was used as a weapons to terrorize and destroy the people.
Deuteronomy was during the time King Josiah of Judah, which was right after the civil wars that followed the death of King Solomon.
King Josiah was an Aaronite. The Aaronites were religious extremists who believed their word was the one and only word of God. They enslaved the people, forced them to obey very strict rules and laws dealing with everyday life. Punishment for not following these rules and laws meant torture and/or death.
Also, King Josiah and the rest of the Aaronites committed genocide against the Canaanites.
Besides homosexuality, the following is a list of what is also forbidden in Deuteronomy.
Clothes are forbidden to be made or worn of fibers and fabrics mixed or blended together.
Crossdressing.
All new houses had to have a fence on top of their roofs.
Punishment for rebellious and/or unmanageable children was stoning.
A very strict dress code.
There many other things forbidden in Deuteronomy. But I think you get the idea of how evil King Josiah and the rest of the Aaronites were.
Also I'm sure that if you look deep enough into the history of the Nazis rise to power in Germany, you'll find at one point of another that Hitler and the Nazis used Deuteronomy as another justification to kill the Jews, Christians and anyone else they considered subhuman.
By the way, I'm sure that King Josiah and the rest of the Aaronites are right now roasting in Hell for all eternity the crimes the committed in the name of God.
Now, I want you all to remember what I posted here the next time any of you think about using Deuteronomy as an excuse to attack homosexuals, crossdressers and transgendered people.
And if you are wondering. I am NOT a Liberal. I hate bureaucracy. I love guns. And I think Government is the problem and not the solution.
Most hermaphodites and a growing number of doctors are of the opinion as to change the standard as to not to force surgery on the baby and wait until later in life when the hermaphodite is mature enough to make the choice for itself as to whether it wants to live as a male or as a female or just stay as they are.
Oh yes, I was saying that it seemed extreme to me. Amputating a leg to prevent gangrene from killing the patient also sounds extreme to me, but sometimes it is necessary. In fact, until relatively recently, that was the primary response to a wound which was likely to become gangrenous. Check out the medical practices during the American Civil War if you want to read about extreme.
Are you comfortable with leaving God's law as it is written and basing your society upon such?
As modified by Jesus Christ, God's law is an excellent base for our society and our Founding Fathers recognized that. The Judeo-Christian moral tradition is woven throughout their writings and speeches. You'll notice that I refer to Judeo-Christian moral tradition and not to Judaic Law. Christ Himself showed us that we were no longer to be the ones to deliver the penalties, as in the tale of the adulterous woman. The Apostles taught that Christians were not bound by Judaic Law, hence the eating of pork and circumcision not being a requirement, except in matters of sexual morality.
In this nation, we do not enfore religious observation, quite correctly, I might add.
Anyway, given the above, while it may have been necessary to enforce such laws at one time, we are no longer to be the judge and executioner in these matters. And we recieved that information from the Law-Maker Himself.
Or should we just pick and choose according to our interpretation?
I wouldn't recommend it.
There’s no such thing as a hermaphrodite in humans, it’s called syndromes of abnormal sex differentiation and are all born to one gender or another.
The standard is surgery to give them female genitalia.
That’s utter crap and you know it, you’re just trolling for sympathy for the idiots who mutilate themselves as “transsexuals”. Go spread your lies somewhere else.
But there have been actually cases of horror stories where hermaphodites rejected being forced to live as a girl and later in life they had reconstuctive surgery to give them male genitalia.
There’s no horror about living the gender one is born with. Transsexualism happens when those who practice perversion take their sickness to the next level of filth and degradation.
Most hermaphodites and a growing number of doctors are of the opinion as to change the standard as to not to force surgery on the baby and wait until later in life when the hermaphodite is mature enough to make the choice for itself as to whether it wants to live as a male or as a female or just stay as they are.
Where, in Amsterdam? Everyone is born one gender or another, each and every disorder of abnormal sex differentiation is a condition of one gender and only one gender. Stop your lies and propaganda promoting the hideous self-mutilation of those who call themselves transsexuals.
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