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How Would You Go About Truly Reforming Our Political Parties?
Earlier Posts under <i>Loyal Opposition</i> ^ | October 27, 2001 | Avoiding_Sulla

Posted on 10/27/2001 6:12:11 PM PDT by Avoiding_Sulla

... IMHO, the best advice: WORK HARD. Here's what that work requires:

OFFENSE
-- Form a group of like-minded individuals to watch all PRIMARY races.
-- Identify all RINOs and potential RINOs you can.
-- Make sure all RINOs have real opposition.
-- Work like the Dickens to keep like-minded real conservatives from running against each other.
-- Now, more than ever (as you pointed out) Dems are outa favor. So don't let the RINOs even try to sell you that their form of compromise is the only thing will win in the general election. Being laughed off the stage is the kind of humiliation RINOs deserve. It might even scare 'em straight.

DEFENSE
Every party committee has its Establishment thugs and RINO disrupters. Be prepared.
-- Your group must attend these things in force and not let "those in charge" dictate the agenda.
-- Make sure one of you is expert in Roberts' Rules of Order. Then you will be heard.
-- The size of your group will grow, and the RINOs' will shrink. Be accessible and receptive.
-- Be on the look out for attempts to derail you. Threats, bribes, flattery and personal attacks. Hard ball.
-- Be on the look out for attempts to stall you. Phony adjournments, committee assignments not of your choosing (being made chair comes under flattery), and other red-herrings.

I'm sure there are others to whom you can turn to add to this list. Nothing worth achieving comes easily. This all requires hard work. The Progressives haven't brought us to what appears to be the brink of annihilation (but that's another story) because they didn't work hard.

Either not voting or, worse, voting Democratic because some Republican doesn't do what he ought is the conservative's form of throwing a tantrum. It's not only disruptive and counterproductive, it looks and sounds liberal. For recent examples of this, look at those phony pacifists (nee anarchists) turning violent.

Stop whining and sounding like a spoiled liberal. If you really want to change things, you must work at it. Now that I have given you a formula for how to go about it, what's your excuse?


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Well, FR loyalists, I am now turning to you: how would you add to this list?

For those who believe something needs to be done, this is your chance to contribute to rediscovery of civil American tactics. Our grandfathers did it (overcame Establishmentarian obstacles) when they returned from WWII. It was their bravery and honor which gave us 20 years of relative bliss compared with the near utter chaos our fathers morally lapsed us into.

BTW, this will work with any Establishment political party. Even for the Libertarians, who have had every good new idea in the last 25 years except the most important one of all -- how to put together a winning coalition -- yes, it would even work for them.

Now its your turn at bat. Are you just gonna stand there and let the professional politicians bury you? Or are you gonna fight back properly, with honor and thoughtfulness? Are you gonna let the malthusians and malcontents slowly bring about civil war? Or are you gonna dedicate yourselves to the revival of American values like liberty and justice and constitutional limits upon government? You still have a choice. You still have your freedom.

Yours In Liberty,

First in the anti-Sullan alliance.

1 posted on 10/27/2001 6:12:11 PM PDT by Avoiding_Sulla
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
TERM LIMITS...
2 posted on 10/27/2001 6:16:26 PM PDT by boomop1
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
I took another political test and it came out that I am a CENTRIST. What's that?
3 posted on 10/27/2001 7:00:25 PM PDT by Sungirl
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To: boomop1
They worked just great. For instance, term limits got rid of a lot of jerks as well as good guys in California. That made room for more radicals than ever before. They attacked your gun rights worse than ever before; and installed a power crazed governor (in more ways than one) who signed those antigun bills due to blackmail from his own party over corruption charges dealing with power, and who will now pass, unobstructed, huge tax increases because that energy problem is costing $$$$$$$$$$$$. And why? Because they can!

And on the National level, term limits got rid of just ONE. But not in the way you'd like them to. It got rid of him (Tom Foley) due to backlash over his lawsuit that overturned national term limits. And what did Foley's loss prove? That we can beat long-term and powerful incumbents. And even that took dedication and hard work.

And "term limits" only helps if the entrenched creeps's "brother" isn't being prepped to step into his slot by the same corrupting forces who supported his predecessor. What are you prepared to do about THAT issue?

TERM LIMITS is a buzz word. Real reform requires far more than bowing down and obeisance to a single, questionable, and anti-republican tactic!

4 posted on 10/27/2001 7:03:20 PM PDT by Avoiding_Sulla
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To: Sungirl
Centrist(noun)- middle-of-the-roader. What is that?
Soon-to-be roadkill? :)

IMHO, and those of others, a centrist today is where was an ardent leftist was positioned only a few years ago.
Have you suffered enough from ideological creep yet? I think we all have.

Reform is more than a noun. At some point it becomes an imperative action verb.

5 posted on 10/27/2001 7:26:05 PM PDT by Avoiding_Sulla
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
True reform of the existing two parties would begin with a third party. IMHO
6 posted on 10/27/2001 7:27:43 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
The old "none of the above vote." Put that as an option on every ballot. If "none of the above" gets the most votes both candidates are disqualified and a new set of primaries are held chosing two new candidates. Do it over and over untill the people choose someone they want.

It gives us all another option other than having to go with the Republican we hate just because he is Republican or a Democrat just because he's a Democrat. Try it out in Mass. first. Teddy Kennedy is gone. One problem solved.

7 posted on 10/27/2001 7:33:19 PM PDT by america76
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
the best we can hope for is that which the founding fathers intended:

1.for one party to be in power for awhile, and then for the other party to take over.

power corrupts, and the founders were aware of that.

unfortunately the democrats dominated congress since fdr.

also, the two parties have merged into one party.

2. an independent media that actually investigates both parties and corporations.

8 posted on 10/27/2001 7:41:17 PM PDT by ken21
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
How would you add to this list?
1) No Lawyer shall be allowed to serve in any elected office of the Legislative Branch.
2) All Votes will be fully recorded Ayes and Nays.
3) All Laws will have an automatic Sunset Provision of Ten Years; they may be revoted as required.
4) No Amendments will be appended unless directly relevant to the main bill, and each will be individually voted on after passage of the main bill.
Hey. I can dream too!
9 posted on 10/27/2001 10:01:17 PM PDT by brityank
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
Term limits will work, if your in a liberal state like Ca. tough shi*, the power hungry politicians need to be restricted by term limits then maybe the true reform minded who will do the job for the country, not themselves will emerge.
10 posted on 10/28/2001 3:56:13 AM PST by boomop1
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
Would you prefer a one-party system here? I hope not.
11 posted on 10/28/2001 4:07:03 AM PST by sakic
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
Reinstate the original method of selecting senators.
12 posted on 10/28/2001 4:18:01 AM PST by janus
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
You want the truth? Cull the herd. The basic problem is that most people are just too stupid for self government.
13 posted on 10/28/2001 4:21:38 AM PST by SwinusMaximus
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To: janus
I'll go for a single 6 year term for President, Congress and the Senate. No reelections, no campaigning ofter being elected. There also needs to be a method of removing the unfit to serve. High ethical and legal standards, and stiff punishments. The elected are not royalty. They are servents of the people and show act and be treated that way.
14 posted on 10/28/2001 4:26:15 AM PST by Dutch Boy
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
Hanging the reps and Senators that violate their oath to uphold the constitution.

But then there would be about two left.

15 posted on 10/28/2001 4:32:30 AM PST by listenhillary
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
True reform of the existing two parties would begin with a third party.

Sam, I once thought that approach had great promise. Maybe it still does. What can you suggest to solve the myriad obstacles facing third parties?
For reasons we could discuss for days, the complexities working against third parties seem immense.

I believe we stand a chance if we could find a way to overcome, one at time, the advantages enjoyed by the established order.

For instance: the money machine. It pays for the existing parties in ways that even leaves us fighting against our own money. The media's propaganda is funded mostly by the ads of business interests in the off season, which we pay for with our patronage of the businesses; and by protected monied interests during campaign season, which we pay for in other ways. Boycotts and patronage are tools. FReeping appears to be a growing tactic. But it isn't strategic. How do you plan on shifting the allegiance of old party loyalists to the new?

Other questions: Why have third parties mostly failed? Have any really succeeded? Where and how and under what circumstances?

Historically, it appears to be far harder to succeed with a new party than gradually gain some sway over branches of existing parties. (And even if you do, what happens when the parent org abandons your branch?) Whichever choice, either is a demanding job.

It is indeed troubling at how the two parties seemed to have merged into what could be called "the party of the ruling class."

16 posted on 10/30/2001 11:02:38 PM PST by Avoiding_Sulla
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: Avoiding_Sulla
"the complexities working against third parties seem immense."

Oh, I agree completely. The obstacles are formidable.
But think of it. The figure 51% would no longer have any meaning. Nor would phrases like "us or them". The two current parties wouldn't know what to do. Polling numbers would be all askew. A candidate could win office by a majority of only 35%. How important would the Electoral College be then? Can you see why the two current parties don't want to get rid of it? As long as they hear rumblings in the grassroots of a third party springing up, they won't ever get rid of it. Jesse Ventura must've scared the bejeebers out of a lot of the 'behind the scenes' power brokers. They are way too happy to continue with the status quo, which is to divert the sheeples attention from what is really important, by carrying on with all this partisan/bi-partisan crap. They've latched onto this current system like a tick on a hound dog. But even a tick knows enough to let go when it's bloated.
It's these thoughts and many others that make me think that true reform cannot take place until a third party comes along and grows strong. There must be an uncertainty factor thrown into the mix to keep them all honest. And I use the word 'honest' very loosely in this context. I wouldn't want to be accused of attributing a character trait like that, to those that seem genetically incapable of understanding the concept.

18 posted on 10/31/2001 5:21:52 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
I like your suggestions. We must come to the realization that RINOs are no good and should be voted against. The Republicans will move to the right when they realize they have to to win. Currently their strategy is to just mimic the democrats as much as possible. Let that strategy be a loser for them and they'll abandon it.

So, do what Barry Goldwater advised when he was alive, always split your vote, some Democrat, some Republican, some Reform Party. Make the parties compete for the conservative vote. If there's nothing but liberals on the ballot, then vote Democrat. Next time the ballot won't have only liberals if everybody does that.

Too many Americans have way too much party loyalty, it's killing our politics, this seige mentality.

19 posted on 10/31/2001 5:38:06 AM PST by Red Jones
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
1. Vote your conscience. 2. Get involved in A political party. 3. Don't let people tell you you're wasting a vote. The best way to reform an establishment is to work from within. Ron Paul comes to mind.
20 posted on 10/31/2001 5:43:31 AM PST by sayfer bullets
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