9/11 and the Tin-Foil Hat Crowd

After the horrifying sneak attack of 9/11 and the continuing anthrax scares, I am certain that our government is doing the right thing in going after OBL and his Taliban henchmen. Their words and their deeds are just crying for us to wipe them off the face of the earth, consign them to history's dustbin, or whatever similar fate we can conjure up. I am 99.9999% certain that GWB is handling the job well and doing the right thing for our nation. I hope he continues and carries the message to all the state sponsors of terrorism as well. But there are some things that are troubling me.

Before anyone starts flaming, this is not going to be a "blame America" screed. Au contraire. Through our tradition of liberty, we've always helped raise the level of civilization in places where we've injected our influence. The doubts that I have about the current war policy stem from this question: Considering the abuses and the lies heaped on American citizens in recent years by their federal government (IRS abuses, Waco, etc.), and the federal power grabs that were attempted long before 9/11 (Know Your Customer, Carnivore, and others), can we really, truly believe BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that the tin-foil hat crowd is totally off base with their wacko conspiracy theories?

I've heard such types talk about the "Masonic brotherhood" which seeks to gain world domination by imposing the "new world order". I've read theories about how the CFR, Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderbergers are behind a vast scheme to impose the one-world socialist vision of the Illuminati at the expense of traditional American freedoms (What better way to eliminate liberty than to use the exigency of war?). In the past I've always taken such nonsense with a grain of salt. And my current reaction is "Why would any such conspiracy risk killing thousands of innocent people just to advance its agenda? Couldn't it be done in a more subtle way?"

But still, I'm troubled. How, for instance, were we able to pin the 9/11 attacks on bin Laden so quickly while claiming that his al-Qaeda organization is based on compartmentalized "cells" without a direct chain-of-command? Why is the evidence we have on him and al-Qaeda under seal? Why does the title of the new cabinet level organization (Office of Homeland Security) seem troubling? Am I wrong to be asking these questions? Could the tin-foil hat wackos be on to something? Is everything we're hearing from the media and the government true? Don't get me wrong: I support the government's actions in its fullfillment of its Constitutional duty to "provide for the common defense". I just hope I'm not being lied to - I don't want this to be a country that's has given up its birthright of liberty to advance some evil, conspiratorial agenda. That's not the America I want to live in.

There's not really enough to make me a believer.

There's plenty there...What I have found is that the non-believers chose not to check out the evidence...Goes back to about 1911...

Tin foilers don't just make this stuff up...We just listen a lot...It was clinton who told us to expect terrorists to attack the USA...When we repeated it, we're the bad guys...It was clinton who told us we would have a bio/chem attack in the very near future...We believed it...

And I, for one, do not believe terrorism will be wiped off the face of the earth regardless of how big the war machine gets...As long as there are people willing to kill themselves while they kill you, me and our families, terrorism is here to stay...UNLESS, we do something to keep them out of the US...But that's another conspiracy matter...And worse, it's that big international evil, America First protectionism...

And the homeland security office is going to protect Americans from terrorists while at the same time allowing every terrorist in the world access to our country??? Right....The only ones who will be restrained are the American people...Not the terrorists...And the government tells you that...Just give up a few more of your rights...

Well the sky IS falling and it's dropping tin foil hats...You better get yours while the supply lasts....

Chilling interview.

I bet not more than five people who post at this site has read the entire text of home land gestapo. It has basically nothing to do with keeping middle eastern terrorists from doing bad things in America.

I think what is going on is the govt knows some serious poop is coming down, and a big part of that is going to be a complete collapse of the market and the economy. The govt has been preparing for this for quite sometime, and they do not know what to expect.

So to be safe, they are getting all of their police powers lined up now. Things are much worse than I thought they were. Far far far worse. Unemployment could rise to 30 - 40 percent, equities get smoked for another 80%, etc. Since the September low in the market is clearly no bottom at all, I suspect that, if 9/11/01 is any guide, we might see and even GREATER disaster on American soil.

The solution? Cut off ALL ties to every globalist agency (the UN) cut off all ties with the Federal Reserve System, bring ALL our US troops home, return money to the gold and/or silver backed, constitutionally mandated standard, arm every citizen, and have basic weapons training taught in all schools, track down every illegal alien in this country and kick them out, close the borders for five years, dismantle FEMA, kill the office of HLS, and that is just for starters.

America is in grave jeapordy because of entangling alliances. But since most people are too stupid to see who the real enemy is, and since we can only expect the govt to seize even more power as a result, we have to expect a decisive, devastating American crash on every conceivable level.

Look, if it were Bill Clinton in office, anything of the what you said would be possible. That's why there were so many paranoids running around during those eight years. But, you hear nothing about whacko groups anymore because most of the citizenry trust Bush. He is a man of true morals and virtues. Besides, he knows that he will be voted off the face of American politics by those who put him in if he does tread on our rights. When Bill Klinton was in office, the people hadn't been slapped awake by 9-11-2001. Now, we as a nation have come down from our selfish-"I make more than I have ever before, so I don't care" attitudes and are now paying attention. Proof of this is the public relations nightmare Hitlery Klinton is going through right now.

#8 Agreed, mlo; and for starters, Clinton is no longer in office, so I don't believe the Govt is lying to us any longer. In this time of trouble, people often fail to realize we should support our president and the military.

There are those, however, who cannot live without a conspiracy. If you read back,TWA800 for instance, Elaine Scarry has a more reasonable theory on what happened, EMIs; saw a documentary on this recently, but I haven't heard anyone talking about it--only that the US Navy accidentally shot down the plane, and hundreds of sailors are covering it up. IOW, the Govt did "it", and there isn't ever a rational explanation for anything else, it *has* to be a conspitracy.

To bassmaner, when have these conspiracies been proven "beyond a shadow of doubt"? And, if you have doubt that binLaden is guilty, you should want to protect his rights (one reason why sealed indictments are necessary).

That being said, I will say I agree on Waco, probably Ron Brown, but that was the lousy impeached x42 who was responsible, and I'd welcome anyone to wants to go after that rotten SOB and prosecute him, especially those who voted for him (wink, wink, Rivero).

Flame me, I don't care; I'm tired of this conspiracy talk, when this country is under attack, and we have troops overseas who are trying to get rid of those who put us in peril. Talk is cheap.

BTW, just a few years ago, anybody even considering that Xlin-Ton had something to do with the transfere of weapons information to Red China was considered a 100% tin foil certifiable conspiracy nut.......

For what it's worth.

20 posted on 10/24/01 10:11 AM Pacific by martian_22

That just isn't true. Anyone with an ounce of common sense should know that the Chinese did not make millions in illegal camp contributions for nothing in return; in fact, just the opposite should be true. You probably weren't around at the time, but in '96-'97 time frame, I posted everything I could find on this outrage. The media did report it, but the traitor Clinton still managed to avoid prosecution, with help of the dirty Democrats.

I could care less about whether bin-Laden or any of his ilk get due process - frankly if we nuked the entire Middle East to get him it wouldn't bother me all that much. I'm just throwing out some thoughts to an audience that by and large doesn't really trust our federal government all that much - remember Ronald Reagan's remark about "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" being the nine scariest words in the English language!

I'm just wondering if what we see and hear is reality. The tin-foilers seem to be the only ones questioning it - I'm just wondering if it's really fair to just dismiss them out of hand.

remember Ronald Reagan's remark about "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" being the nine scariest words in the English language!

I'm just wondering if what we see and hear is reality. The tin-foilers seem to be the only ones questioning it - I'm just wondering if it's really fair to just dismiss them out of hand.

70 posted on 10/24/01 3:02 PM Pacific by bassmaner

None of President Reagan's words scared me. I don't see the Govt is all that bad, especially outside the Clinton years, which were disastrous for we working people.

The tinfoilers are going to find a conspiracy somewhere, somehow and somplace, and yes, I think it is most fair to dismiss them in this case. I'm willing to wait to see what happens with the Armed Forces finest doing their work in the Middle East; they will be doing things we may never know about, and that's fine with me, since I have faith they will get the job done.

My comment about sealed indictment was intended to say that we do not have privy to all information--there again, I trust AG Ashcroft and some of his finest (like Chertoff) will take care of things. We could even have surprises down the road with regard to past deeds.

Bottom line is, I'm just not into bashing my Govt, especially when we're at war--it is a horrible sign to the enemy that we're not united, and we are, by and large.

In the '96-'97 time frame, about 99% of the general populace and the main stream media gave no credence or plausibility to any China/Clinton utterings.

If you published reports then, you were considered a conspiracy nut. Even in '99 the medias(mainstream) didn't want to discuss any VRWC non-sense without solid, sourced proof.

Even today it's considered as some stupid dream chased by Xlin-Ton haters. After all....If anything of substance was evident the DOJ(Reno or Ashcroft) would have prosecuted such a heinous act. It's still in tin-foil territory my friend as far as the "in-the-know" beltway people are concerned.

Me? - I have a different opinion.

"In the '96-'97 time frame, about 99% of the general populace and the main stream media gave no credence or plausibility to any China/Clinton utterings."

You're quite wrong, and that is why I've flagged JimRob, as I'm sure he remembers all the articles published by the media and posted right here, when FR was very young. If you don't believe me, perhaps you might ask him yourself. The LA Times was particularly tough on what went on with the '96 election. The Wash Post still has a database, as well. The issue is, some of us cared enough to study what took place and brought it up for review and discussion. Some of the articles are likely in my old laptop; perhaps I'll check one day when I have time; I'm working for a couple more weeks, then if you want to remind me.......

I don't doubt you published and there were mainstream mentionings but in the world at large most citizens neither heard nor read much on this at all and if they did dismissed it as incredulous.

Sure, a handful of republican congressmen(patriots) tried to get action and websites like FR gave documentation to assertions but none of this was considered normal. It was considered eccentric to say the least.

Ask Jim how even mentioning the Mena operations put one in the nut case catagory on this site let alone the rest of the world.

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