I didn't confuse the issues. You made a swipe and I straightened it out. You brought in the issue in your prior post by way of inferrance that I think it wrong for people to pray for one another (the same language you use to defend the sin of communing with the dead). So, let's not just let you get away with miscoloring what's happening here.
When a fellow Christian dies and is suffering the transition of Purgatory, we might very well pray that their visit is brief.
So God causes his people to suffer upon death? Scripture please. My bible says absent in the flesh, present with God. One can't be present with God and imprisoned in purgatory for the cleansing of sin. And if one dies and puts on incorruption as the Bible says, there is nothing corrupt to be removed by a purgatory. Multiple problems you have in this lie of the devil. Your clergy dreamed up this fecal refuse through a spirit of their own. Tell us, if God were to put anyone in a purgatory, and he deamed they needed to be there for a specific period of time for the job to be done, what are his criterion. And how does the RCC somehow know that praying for people who need to be there for x amount of time can get that time prayed down? You treat it like a need and a purification for ten seconds then turn it into a prison sentence in the next breath. If it takes ten minutes in God's time to cook grits by God's determination, then God must alter the universe to get someone out of purgatory early. If he can spend the energy to do that, why is a purgatory needed when he can just speak incorruptable nature into being? Yeah, right, the more you think about it, the more like a pile of dung purgatory sounds. It's moronicism run rampant combined with Blasphemies. And it's a lie of the Devil.
You didn't know what you were talking about then either, so I don't see how it will help.
Oh, really? I didn't know that every OT reference in the old testament that you guys use to prop up purgatory refers to hell or the grave either by inferance or direct implication. Never once in the Bible is purgatory mentioned as a third state. God says if you have sin, you go to hell. If you don't have sin, you go to heaven. That's the word. You create a grey area that plays to worthiness - which is a crock in itself. Then you have a whole system of what kind of sins do what and cause one to enter purgatory or hell. Then you want to say when one gets to purgatory, they've already earned heaven, they just have to earn their way in now through penitential torture of somekind - a reflection of the other blasphemous things the RCC has dreamt up. God didn't give mankind a free gift so that he could exact a pound of flesh from every man at death. And there isn't the first scripture that backs up this fraud.
Purgatory is a "work" because God never answers our prayers. That's what you just said. God can have no mercy on anyone, He will do what he wants on His own timeframe and never listens to the cries of His people for mercy. Especially when they ask for mercy not for themselves, but for others.
"Thy will be done, in heaven..." These words sound familiar? God acts in his time and on his rules - in his way. Funny, ya'll beat up on those 'proddies' that play name it and claim it, then turn right around and tell people that if they pray for someone in purgatory, their time *will* be reduced. If one pays for a mass for someone in purgatory, their time *will* be reduced. You don't deal with the fact that if they belong there for a time determined by God that God can magically alter that time just because of what you want. Again, that's if you believe the lie to begin with. Let's give you a little time to come up with some holy fourish to confuse that and take the mind off the obviety of the truth. I'm sure you can do it. Purgatory is a lie of the devil. And your name it & claim it garbage associated with it is a lie of the devil. And the RCC abuse of Widows and Children through this will be dealt with in the end by God. There is much to be answered for.
You're funny. Why do we bother to petition the Lord with prayer? Every day on FR there are threads where someone has cancer or is in the hospital and we pray that God will bring them quick relief. Is this pointless as well? According to your logic God will do as He wills. Our prayer can have no effect. God turns his ear away from us and refuses to hear our pleas.
The only thing worse than mistating the truth is being dumb enough to waller in it. Yet there you are. People can pray whatever they want. God is under no strictures to honor it if it is not in His will. God is in no way obligated to hear anyone that is in disobedience to him. He is under no obligation to give ear to prayers regarding nonexistant things or places (ie purgatory). But it's a good distraction for people isn't it.. Getting their prayers on things they can't effect and that are pointless instead of having them wasted on such things as their lives and the lives of others. Getting them to pray to dead people instead of to God. Getting them to believe in your system of foulups and pennance instead of God's system of repentance and righteousness. You add up all the little screwups and you have people pointed at the wrong places for the wrong reasons and praying for the wrong things. You've invalidated God.
Do the other Christians here agree that God can not be moved by our prayers?
Why didn't you just ask about Sola scriptura - If you want to twist.. at least your being consistant.
I didn't confuse the issues. You made a swipe and I straightened it out. You brought in the issue in your prior post by way of inferrance that I think it wrong for people to pray for one another (the same language you use to defend the sin of communing with the dead). So, let's not just let you get away with miscoloring what's happening here.
I made no mention of praying to the dead. I was talking about praying to help fellow Christians in Purgatory. I didn't bring the issue in, you did because you misunderstood what I was talking about.
And if one dies and puts on incorruption as the Bible says, there is nothing corrupt to be removed by a purgatory.
For the second time today, you have just described Purgatory in passing. This is it. It is the putting on of incorruption. I wish that some day you would at least understand that which you reject.
And how does the RCC somehow know that praying for people who need to be there for x amount of time can get that time prayed down?
...then turn right around and tell people that if they pray for someone in purgatory, their time *will* be reduced. If one pays for a mass for someone in purgatory, their time *will* be reduced.
Once again, you fail to have the slightest understanding. There is no "time" associated with the process of Purgatory. Folks aren't guaranteed less "time" in Purgatory for specific actions. You simply are unteachable. You will not listen to what I say and feel you have the privledge to bloviate all over this forum about things that ARE NOT SO. I really wish at some moment before you die that you take the time to understand at least one thing about the religion that you hate so much. You hate a caricature and you will be held responsible for it.
And the saddest thing is that good Catholic folks everywhere will pray for your "learning curve" in Purgatory to be gentle and all of your Protestant friends will have abandoned you when you most need to be a part of the Communion of Saints.
SD
Catholics accuse protties of licentiousness, saying that they think they can sin all they want because they are so sure of going to heaven...but if you think about it, the same accusation can be made against catholics----they can shrug their shoulders at sin because they know they'll still be able to get to heaven after a little time in purgatory.
I can't believe we are even talking about such a concept as "purgatory." My "purgatory" took place at Calvary when Jesus suffered and died in my place. This is not a license to sin.....no, just the opposite...Calvary gives the followers of Christ the motivation to live for Him. 2 Cor. 5:14,15:
"For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died. And He died for all, that they who live should not longer live for themselves, but *for Him who died and rose again on their behalf*."