Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
I'm writing this after watching the show of Oct 26. In which they had, as a guest, a Teacher accused of teaching hatred to her students in the form of a large egg-splattered picture of Ben Ladan. I'm glad Hannity responded to the accusations lobbed against her by donating money to help pay for the picture. However I think he missed an important point that could have been made in her(the teachers) defense. Hate in and of itself isn't evil despite what some say. It is philosophically impossible, in this world, to love something without hating it's opposite. Wether or not their guest was teaching hate isn't the problem. We all must hate evil, indeed, she should be reworded if she was in fact teaching hatred of evil. One cannot love freedom if you don't hate slavery. One cannot love God without hating Sin. One cannot love good without hating evil. And, one cannot hate hate without being a hypocrite.
Hate is just an emotion. And, emotions can't be evil in and of themselves. Only applied to the wrong things are they evil. I could love slavery but, that would be evil. I can hate it and that is good.
Now I know this is bleedinglly obvious to most Catholics I know. But I was wondering what the Proddy understanding of hate is? And do any of you agree with me philosophically?
LOL - fell out of favor did he? LOL. Documentation and relevance? His statements are pretty well in line with what SD was arguing. So, Is SD now not sanctioned? Sorry - too stinking funny for me.. rofl. BTW. We here have already been entreated to the standard party line that a Stamp from the RCC on any book is meaningless - ya'll were quite thorough early one in shooting down the validity of even your own writings. Seems the standard catholic strategy is that if the ship is in a heavy storm, the best plan of action is to blow a hole in the keel and swim for it LOL. Can you tell us if there are any truly valid statements that can be relied upon? I know out of millions of books printed you all keep to The Catechism and one other source quoted here. Does that mean that the rest is propaganda and worthless garbage not to be trusted - like the 'church fathers'? I mean, it truly strikes me funny that nothing under the sun from Catholicism is trustworthy so long as it can be quoted from. rofl.
Sorry, just had to ask.
I don't want to read anything into what you are saying beyond the most blatently obvious. I think what would be useful is a definition of what hate is and is not. Hate is extreme loathing and disgust and is typically aimed at both the animate and inanimate. One can Love Camaros and hate the color red - leaving them jaundiced on a red camaro. It isn't wrong to hate evil so long as the definition of evil is a correct one. People can do evil things. One must always seek to see the root of the problem - which is Satan and the Sin nature. Thus, love your brother; but, hate his sin. More people have trouble with distinguishing between the two than actually understand what hate is. Liberalism and agenda pushers define hate as anything that is anti-them. Generally, that's called delusion.
As a matter of philosophy, you'd do well to ignore the philosophy and pay attention to what the Bible has to say about it. Hate is the same as murder because the spirit of hatred is the spirit of death. And hatred aimed at a person always results in violence - either spiritual or physical - toward a person. If you entertain the spirit of death through loathe feelings against another person, the Devil has the right to use that ungodliness to wage spiritual warfare on the person that hatred is aimed at. Thusly, whether you are guilty of punching a person due to hatred or not, you are still guilty of attempting or accomplishing harm against them due to your disobedience and complicity. This is a spiritual truth. Those of us who know how to protect ourselves agains the wiles of the Devil are immune to his attacks. Those who do not know can be severely damaged or killed by such spiritual attacks. As a side note: Witches and Satanists don't go astral just for the fun of it. They can do real damage if you aren't right with God.
These sorts of things are why the apostles said they would not have us ignorant about spiritual things. People need to wake up.
Is any of this you quoted saying what you said, that some Catholics wished to be in hell rather than go to Purgatory? No. When will you stop lying?
Perhaps I need to start attaching a label [metaphor in use]? I've no need to lie to defend scripture.
Your back-tracking is ineffective.
Dave, I've been pointed to the error, and I missed this in the writing. The intent was metaphor at the time of the writing; but, in haste that is not the way it was constructed. So, I'll withdraw my objection to your critique of the style and readress your attention to the content as intended. Sorry for this. If I'd caught it I would have corrected it then; but, it is seen late, so I offer apology - I had no intention of deciet. But, again, I'm normally firing off replies between my duties when I have a spare moment. Most of them get assembled at a rate of a sentence or two every 10 minutes. Not an excuse, merely providing a little insight.
Now that I've eaten my words on my own use of words. Would you care for some Katsup to go with your unbiblical doctrine, or do you wish to further wallow in the contradictions it poses by way of further futile defense. Admitting you're clergy missed the boat is the first step. After that, large amounts of Coffee and cigarettes go with the sessions (CA) LOL.
You are describing an application of hatred, not hate itself. As I said before hate is only wrong if applied to the wrong thing ie God, people, the world. So too, Love isn't always good if applied to something evil.
As for the Bible it tells me I have to hate my mom, dad, wife, children, my brothers and sisters, and my own life(Luke 14:26) But it also says if I hate my brother I am a murderer suggesting the definition of hate changes in context. In Psalm 5 it is said God hatest all the wicked. Assuming we don't get a clear definition of what hate is in the Bible, how are we to find one? Philosophy?
It wasn't a cheap shot.
There are lots of false claims made against Catholics and the Catholic Church on this thread, and people get the wrong ideas from them. You had a couple of opportunities to clarify what you meant after SD's #3141. In any case, you have now corrected your mis-statement and I thank you for that.
I have often thought what a great tool this thread is for the Catholics to develop their doctrine and clean it up for later use, what other forum gives them every possible argument against their beliefs, but still is known by such a small hand full of people.
Can you see their monks pouring over these threads saying, Hey, here is an angle I never thought of, or that was a good argument so and so made on that point, or let's feed this in to them and see how it flies. (^g^) JH
Hi, Reggie. The CE gave no references to support this statement?
I understand what he means...at least I think I do. He can correct me if I'm wrong. When he calls purgatory a "work," he means as opposed to *grace*. The "purity" which is supposed to result from purgatory is NOT a gift of God (grace), but is something the person achieves by suffering. It is a work as opposed to being something that God simply *gives* you.
You wrote: Your "purgatory" took place on Calvary? I fear you don't know what purgatory is. Answer me this: are you now perfect, without any sin, desire to sin, selfishness, anything unholy?
Of course I am not sinless. As long as I live in this body of flesh, it will "set its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh" (Gal. 5:17).
And I know what "purgatory" is supposed to be. But it isn't real, SD. There is no such place or experience. There is heaven, and there is hell, there is no in-between. I was saying that my CLEANSING (as in purgatory) took place at the cross where Christ suffered the penalty and punishment for my sins and for my impurity. Even now, the effects of His death are still working, for the Holy Spirit says through John that "the blood of Jesus Christ His Son is cleansing us from sin." (John 1:7-9).
As ksen said, "the animal sacrifices of the OT never actually took away sin; they merely covered them until Jesus came and performed the perfect sacrifice which did not just cover sin, but actually did away with the sin." Ksen supported what he said by quoting a passage from Hebrews 10 where Christ says to the Father, "Behold, I have come to do Thy will, O God." Then in v. 10: "By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." And v. 12-14: "And every priest stands daily, ministering and offering the same sacrifices which can never take away sins: But this man (Jesus Christ) after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God...For by one offering He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified." Cogitate on this passage, Dave...mull it over and over. Let the truth sink in----there is no need for purgatory. Jesus paid it ALL.
Don't worry; you'll be perfect one day. But you won't have to suffer torment in purgatory to become so.
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