Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Has anybody else seen this yet?
Here's my results:
1. Eastern Orthodox (100%)
2. Roman Catholic (100%)
3. Conservative Protestant (85%)
4. Orthodox Judaism (80%)
5. Orthodox Quaker (77%)
It goes south from there (I probably won't be checking out "#21 - Hinduism" this week). The high quaker score is interesting though....
25-30. I'm a tenor.
That was Saradipity who lost her husband..
That would be Tan Sa Nute airport. I was there upon arrival and departure.
Justin Martyr believed Enoch was scripture. Guess he didn't have a whole lot of clout.
Guys, one of the "quotes" used on the page Reggie linked attributed the writing of Bart Brewer... need I say more.
Here I am at work tonight, I have plenty of time and I tried and tried to find confirmation of most of the quotes - and guess what? Found nothing. If ANY religion uses quotes to defame another religion, you'd think they'd post proof of the quotes legitimacy and one could look for them somewhere else in context - not on this page!
BTW, there is no "New York Catechism" - never has been.
I like the last quote - some poor old lady "on the street" is now quotable material for this site. Please.
That page is crap and I don't care what denomination put it out.
Criticizing any religion using false quotes for the sake of defending your own is just plain pitiful.
1.Conservative Protestant (100%)NC
2.Eastern Orthodox (84%)
3.Roman Catholic (84%)
4.Seventh Day Adventist (83%)
5.Orthodox Quaker (75%)
6.Liberal Protestant (73%)
7.Latter-day Saint (Mormon) (66%)
8.Orthodox Judaism (66%)
(^g^) JH
Yes, and he had a hard time keeping separated from Greek mythology and all their little gods, but he did give a good description of how they were still keeping the Lords Supper, even though the modern day writer managed to call it the Eucharist.
The way he described it, it could have been the way most NC keep it today, but I guess that was before the Church was enlightened, huh? JH
Nah, I'm fairly sure I didn't say that...
I'm not familiar with that. Have a link?
Well in reality I should have said the story of Vigilius and Empress Theodora. She was a monophysite and made a deal that if she could get Vigilus the papacy that he would for the price of 700 pounds of gold acknowledge the monopysite Anthimus as patriarch of Constantinople. Anthimus had previously been removed by Pope Agapuitus and replaced with the orthodox Mennas. The conversation between Theodora and Vigilius was by Arch-deacon Liberatus of Carthage in his Breviarium Causae Nestorianorum et Eutychianorum in about 560 A.D. about 25 years after the events and well within living memory of the them. The relevant passage is in chapter 22 of Breviarium: "The Empress calling Vigilius Deacon of Agapitus importuned him to promise her secretly that if he became Pope he would abrogate the Council [of Chalcedon] and would write Theodosius, Anthimus and Severus and by letter confirm their belief promising to give the order to Belisarius that he should be ordained pope and given the 700 pounds of gold. With pleasure Vigilius made the promise for love of episcopacy and gold and after making the promise he set out for Rome."
Vigilius did become pope and sent his predecessor Silverius to starve to death on the island of Palmaria. However, a conversion came over Vigilius after that and when Theodora wanted him to make good on the deal he refused. He paid for his crimes though, during the issue over "The Three Chapters" when Justinian tried to force him to accept the condemnation of Theodor of Mopsuestia, Theodoret of Cyrrhus, and Ibas of Edessa. There were complicated reasons for Justinian's action here and I recommend you go read the article on "The Three Chapters" in the C.E. Essentially the Easter Patriarchs only conditionally accepted Justinian's actions pending their acceptance by Pope Vigilius who would not give it. He feared it would threaten the authority of the Council of Chalcedon (you'll understand more if you read the article). Of course Vigilius was imprisoned by Justinian and held for 10 years, until he died.
The way he described it, it could have been the way most NC keep it today, but I guess that was before the Church was enlightened, huh? JH
Then there is brought to the one of the brethren who is presiding, bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; (NC's do this?) when he has taken them, he gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and offers thanks (eucharist) at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at his hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgiving, all the people present express their assent by saying"Amen."You either know or can learn...And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the Apostles are read, as long as time permits; then when the reader has ceased, the one presiding verbally instructs and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and as we said before, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the one presiding in like manner offers prayers and Thanksgivings according to his ability, and the people assent saying,"Amen."And there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given; and to those who are absent, a portion is sent to the deacons. (NC's do this?) And they who are well-to-do, care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day of which we hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead on the same day
And this food is called among us the Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Savior, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.
This is the way most NC keep it today? I didn't realize how very much alike RCs and NCs really were. I thought they denied all these things? Of course, by NC I mean Baptists and the like. Anglicans and Lutherans are quite close to what is described here.
And then speaking of those who celebrate incorrectly:
In imitation of which the Devil did the like in the Mysteries of Mithras, for you either know or may know that they take bread and a cup of water (notice: no wine) in the sacrifices of those that are initiated, and pronounce certain words over it.
I've never been a big Justin fan, but he does refer to them as "sacrifices" in the early to mid second century. Maybe the church was "enlightened" by that time? Or, more likely, his works are all forgeries.
Look, don't stand and whine when he proposes the absurd and is called on it by someone with more than two iq points to rub together. I know how to read, ok. I passed my grammer tests. And I understand when a sentence ends. It isn't a petty point, either. It's plain obvious that it isn't a petty point - it's only the keys. It's only key to the Peter god that has been erected by the RCC - wow, did that come together as an unholy statement or what. Guess I'll have to say no offense intended toward Peter. Protest something that needs it. Protesting to color when your side's point falls flat in the porcelin chair is rather obvious.
Looks like they just about got you pegged huh? I thought the test was a bit of a crock when Buddhism and Islam were anywhere on my list (I guess if you're going to list the top 25...)
Strange that elementary grammer skills should so perplex you. You aren't interested in the rule, you are looking for the loophole to try and drive your theory through. It ain't there. Jesus mentions something and follows through with defining it before completing the thought. If you knew the full Gospel message, you'd know that everyone that is a true follower - in spirit and truth, has the keys. But we mustent state things like that - it gives the 'duh' crowd the idea that they don't need the priests to say death mass for margaret for fifty bucks, right.
The two things are divorced. The thoughts that belonged together were "He isn't dead. Long live the King." as in the opposite of "The king is dead. Long live the king." But, by all means - please, pontificate and interpret my words for us. I'm finding this amusing. It's rather on topic, You not being able to tell when a sentence thought ends. Guess you wanted to extend it to a paragraph - perhaps like where you're wanting to make three sentences from one in that other issue we're discussing.
Havoc isn't arguing what Dave is mouthing - Dave is mouthing to try and get his way - perhaps out of sympathy that "waa, havoc won't let me make sentences how i want, waa." Sorry, no sympathy from me. And let's look again at what you're squirming over:
Matthew 16:19 "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." -btw, this is KJV. How'd them colons get in there and what on earth do they mean - I wonder. Hmm, should we guess, or should we understand it from what a colon means. Perhaps we should look at the Greek and see that the Greek starts thoughts (sentences) with a Cap [amazing - just like english] and this verse Has but one Cap - not two, not three. OOPS, so much for Dave's three sentences in one idea. What does the verse say.. I give you x: whatever you bind... keys, bind. Wow, they had shackles in old rome that required keys or cotterpins (called a key). Well beat me dumm. The verse says what's being given (the keys) and what their purpose is (binding & loosing). What do keys do? They bind and loose things called LOCKS. You can say "locks" can't you, Dave? Oh wait, perhaps I should change into my canvas sneakers and my button down sweater in the closet. Oh wait, Mr. Trolley, is that you coming....
...."The conversation between Theodora and Vigilius was by Arch-deacon Liberatus of Carthage in his Breviarium"....
Should be ...."The conversation between Theodora and Vigilius was recorded by Arch-deacon Liberatus of Carthage in his Breviarium"....
You're right of course. I'm sorry if I misinterpeted your response. What exactly did Jesus mean when he made the statement about the keys?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.