The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
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[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Might be a good idea to let everyone know from where this cut and paste comes from.

I think I seen it down at the grocery store in the check out line on one of those tabloid mags.

BigMack

[JohnnyM]

"So why I believe it is because someone or something taught it to me."

Thank you for the response.

JM

[al_c]

How goes it with the little one, my friend?

She's doing about as well as a newborn can. She complains a lot with bouts of gas pains ... but then, so do I. ;o) Other than that, things are great. I'm back at work now so the wife is pretty much going stir-crazy staying home all the time. But now that the unseasonably cold temps are gone, maybe she can get out more.

Did you notice that you have a FReepmail?

[malakhi]

(Hey, let's as angelo what he thinks.)

Most Jews interpret these "times" figuratively, not literally.

[SoothingDave]

So here we have precedent of a day signifying a year in terms of prophecy. Now we have the benefit of hindsight on the issue and know for a fact that there was no fulfillment of this prophecy 70 weeks (490 days) after Daniel received it. We can, however, make a strong case using weeks as 7 years to pinpoint the coming of Christ. A more strict translation of weeks would actually result in the term "seven's" which would give more foundation to the the 490 years translation. So an interpretation of the 70 weeks using years is a valid exegesis using Scripture.

Yeah, OK. It's still not "literal." Go to any dictionary of the English language and look up the term "week." You will not find that it means a "year."

SD

[SoothingDave]

Most Jews interpret these "times" figuratively, not literally.

Is that something they learned from the Catholics, or is it something to do with the way Hebrew is spoken?

SD

[SoothingDave]

She's doing about as well as a newborn can. She complains a lot with bouts of gas pains ... but then, so do I.

Simethicone is your friend. (aka Mylicon)

SD

[Joyful Wisdom]

70 weeks using years is a valid exegesis using Scripture.

Now I understand what you meant. However, I believe that your interpretation is still figuritive. Ie weeks does not mean weeks. It is different then a general interpretation that means "a long time" but it can not be said to be literal.

[JohnnyM]

"Go to any dictionary of the English language and look up the term "week." You will not find that it means a "year.""

Didn't say a week meant a year. Week means a period of seven and I used *shock* the Bible to interpret the passage. It is that way in the Bible. Now if you want to use the english dictionary to perform scriptural interpretation thats fine by me, but it will seriously hamper any real study of the Word.

JM

[malakhi]

I'm not absolutely sure, but if I understand the rules correctly, he can do that as long as he's not speaking prophetically. Calvinball, anyone?

[SoothingDave]

Didn't say a week meant a year. Week means a period of seven

I'm sorry, you are right. You said a week is seven years. Find that in the dictionary. Literally.

and I used *shock* the Bible to interpret the passage. It is that way in the Bible.

Who's arguing with you? What I am saying is what you are doing is not called being "literal." 70 weeks, literally means 70 times 7 days=490 days. Not 490 years. Literally.

Now if you want to use the english dictionary to perform scriptural interpretation thats fine by me, but it will seriously hamper any real study of the Word.

Say what? Are you going for Sentence of the Day, cause I think you've won? Using an English dictionary will seriously hamper any real study of the Word? LOL

(He shudders to ask about a Greek dictionary)

SD

[JohnnyM]

"70 weeks, literally means 70 times 7 days"

No. It LITERALLY means 70 sevens.

JM

[malakhi]

Did you notice that you have a FReepmail?

Now that you mention it...yes. Back at you, al.

[SoothingDave]

week From the beginning, time was divided into weeks, each consisting of six days of working and one of rest (Gen. 2:2, 3; 7:10; 8:10, 12; 29:28). The references to this division of days becomes afterwards more frequent (Ex. 34:22; Lev. 12:5; Num. 28:26; Deut. 16:16; 2 Chr. 8:13; Jer. 5:24; Dan. 9:24-27; 10:2, 3). It has been found to exist among almost all nations.

Source: Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary

SD

[trad_anglican]

The good die young. Why couldn't Calvin and Hobbs have suffered the same fate as Peanuts and never gone away?

[JHavard]

Vatican stance on gay clergy criticized.

All Catholic bashers should be thrilled to see them allowing their Church to crumble as we all watch on, but I love all Catholics, and will rejoice when I see them take the bull by the horns, and do what is best for the sheep.

Can you picture a herd of innocent sheep that have complete trust in their shepherd, finally finding out that he is the predator, and not the wolf they have hear baying in the distance.

I have never jumped on the RC's about this, because I knew it was so embarrassing for them, and I knew they wanted to see it dealt with as much as I did, but I think their own hierarchy may need their support now more then anytime, and by that I mean to let them know you support doing what is necessary to stop the cancer now, before it infects the whole Church.

How many parents are going to allow their children to become involved in church activities, if they can't trust them alone with a priest?

Again, your Church needs your support in order to know you back them in what needs to be done.

[Elsie]

Thus, the Protestants claim more for every one of themselves than we claim even for the Pope.

---

Too bad.........

It's right there in the Book!

---

NIV 1 Timothy 2:5-6
5. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6. who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time.

NIV John 14:16-18
16. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever--
17. the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
18. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

[JohnnyM]

** Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties - Gleason L. Archer **

"The word for 'week' is 'sabu', which is derived from 'seba', the word for 'seven'. Its normal plural is feminine in form: 'sebuot'. Only in this chapter of Daniel does it appear in the masculine plural 'sabuim'." "Therefore, it is strongly suggestive of the idea "heptad" (a series or combination of seven), rather than a 'week' in the sense of a series of seven days."

JM

[NATE4"ONE NATION"]

In my confused, part Unitarian, part Bible Believing Christian, and part Jew, mind I find when I pray spontaneously, it is to God. I generally don't feel the need to pray to Jesus as the mediator. (I must qualify this because I have also prayed to Jesus).

I agree this issue is a popular one and I see no need to condemn you for it.
I have also prayed to Jesus. i do not believe we are to though.

Christ specifically taught us to pray to the Father.
He tore the curtain to allow direct access to the Father.
He is the sacrifice that having faith in brings us to communion with the Father. This is what "mediator" represents. Jesus does not repeat our prayers, His blood is what allows are prayers to be heard.

We are now direct ticket with God the Father because of Christ's "go between" (mediation) work of dyiung on the cross for our sins.

We ask the Father IN THE NAME of the Son, but it is still the Father we ask.

I liked your response.

[theophilusscribe]

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