Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)
Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.


Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams


Thread 162
TNS Archives


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: christianlist; michaeldobbs
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 30,761-30,78030,781-30,80030,801-30,820 ... 37,681-37,689 next last
To: angelo
Question of the Day: According to the Scriptures, who or what is the Bride of Christ?
30,781 posted on 02/28/2002 6:00:30 AM PST by Woodkirk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30777 | View Replies]

To: Havoc
Yeah, the church - the body of believers - ie. HIS followers who are born again, baptized in the Holy Spirit and Doing what HE tells them to do. His Church. Not an organizational hierarchy.

Right on Havoc. Its hard for alot of people in here to tell the difference.

30,782 posted on 02/28/2002 6:00:38 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30778 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
I was recently embroiled in a discussion about the Great War on another thread, and I am reluctant to open another strategic front, but here goes:

In 1914, all of Middle and Eastern Europe was governed according to constitutions (in the English sense) that were explicitly Christian. The King of Prussia (and German Kaiser) was Calvinist, the King of Württemberg was Lutheran. The Emperor of Austria-Hungary, the Kings of Bavaria and Saxony were Catholic. And, of course, the Tsar was Orthodox. By 1918, all of these constitutions had vanished and were replaced by explicitly secular governments. Admittedly, there continued to be Christian monarchies in several of the smaller states, but once the German/Austro-Hungarian/Russian governmments traded their Christianity for secularism it was as if the torso of Christendom had disappeared, leaving only the extremities. The mantle of Western European leadership was promptly taken up (temporarily) by the anti-clerical, secularist French, and the pragmatic English, succeeded briefly by the even more anti-Christian Nazis, and eventually superceded by the influence of the arch-secular U.S. And, through all that time, Russia was enslaved by a brutal anti-Christian tyranny unparalleled in history.

Modern European political philosophy is now based on Rousseau rather that Scripture and Tradition.

30,783 posted on 02/28/2002 6:00:53 AM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30767 | View Replies]

To: ksen
"Is there a possibility that this could happen? Do you know if there is a movement to get this done?"

I think the idea of trying would be a good premise for a Chestertonian-style novel, but -- to the best of my knowledge -- there is no current restorationist movement for the Holy Roman Empire. All of the current monarchist groups (except in Poland) are concentrated on restoring specific princely familes.

30,784 posted on 02/28/2002 6:09:02 AM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30769 | View Replies]

To: angelo
This is illogical, which is why it has been called a mystery.

Hold this thought.......

I could only find mystery a couple times in the OT: once in Job and once in Daniel...........
 
 
NIV Job 11
 1.  Then Zophar the Naamathite replied:
 2.  "Are all these words to go unanswered? Is this talker to be vindicated?
 3.  Will your idle talk reduce men to silence? Will no one rebuke you when you mock?
 4.  You say to God, `My beliefs are flawless and I am pure in your sight.'
 5.  Oh, how I wish that God would speak, that he would open his lips against you
 6.  and disclose to you the secrets of wisdom, for true wisdom has two sides. Know this: God has even forgotten some of your sin.
 7.  "Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?
 8.  They are higher than the heavens--what can you do? They are deeper than the depths of the grave --what can you know?
 
NIV Daniel 2:18-23
 18.  He urged them to plead for mercy from the God of heaven concerning this mystery, so that he and his friends might not be executed with the rest of the wise men of Babylon.
 19.  During the night the mystery was revealed to Daniel in a vision. Then Daniel praised the God of heaven
 20.  and said: "Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever; wisdom and power are his.
 21.  He changes times and seasons; he sets up kings and deposes them. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning.
 22.  He reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what lies in darkness, and light dwells with him.
 23.  I thank and praise you, O God of my fathers: You have given me wisdom and power, you have made known to me what we asked of you, you have made known to us the dream of the king."
 
(..........and throughout the rest of the story, the word mystery is used a lot.)


It is in the NT that it is used mainly.

NIV Romans11:25-36
 25.  I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
 26.  And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
 27.  And this is  my covenant with them when I take away their sins."
 28.  As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,
 29.  for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
 30.  Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience,
 31.  so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now  receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you.
 32.  For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
 33.  Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and  knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!
 34.  "Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?"
 35.  "Who has ever given to God, that God should repay him?"
 36.  For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.
 
 
NIV Romans 16:25-27
 25.  Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,
 26.  but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him--
 27.  to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.
 
 
NIV 1 Corinthians 13:2
 2.  If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
 
 
NIV 1 Corinthians 14:2
 2.  For anyone who speaks in a tongue  does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.
 
 
NIV 1 Corinthians 15:45-58
 45.  So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
 46.  The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
 47.  The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.
 48.  As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.
 49.  And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we  bear the likeness of the man from heaven.
 50.  I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
 51.  Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--
 52.  in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
 53.  For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
 54.  When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."
 55.  "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?"
 56.  The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 
 57.  But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
 58.  Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. 
 
 
NIV Ephesians 1:9-10
 9.  And he  made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ,
 10.  to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment--to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
 
 
NIV Ephesians 3:2-12
 2.  Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you,
 3.  that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly.
 4.  In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
 5.  which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets.
 6.  This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. **
 7.  I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God's grace given me through the working of his power.
 8.  Although I am less than the least of all God's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
 9.  and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.
 10.  His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms,
 11.  according to his eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 12.  In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.
 
 
NIV Ephesians 6:19-20
 19.  Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel,
 20.  for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.
 
 
NIV Colossians 1:25-27
 25.  I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness--
 26.  the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints.
 27.  To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
 
 
NIV Colossians 2:2-3
 2.  My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ,
 3.  in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
 
 
NIV Colossians 4:3-6
 3.  And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains.
 4.  Pray that I may proclaim it clearly, as I should.
 5.  Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity.
 6.  Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
 
 
NIV 1 Timothy 3:16
 16.  Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

**(We want to share with you, Angelo!)

30,785 posted on 02/28/2002 6:11:18 AM PST by Elsie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30745 | View Replies]

To: ksen;The_Reader_David
How long do you think it will take before Havoc gets The_Reader_David to cuss?

I think TRD will simply wash his hands of him. He's more wise than I.

SD

30,786 posted on 02/28/2002 6:11:32 AM PST by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30771 | View Replies]

To: Havoc
As I indicated yesterday, I'm merely trying to understand the difference you're articulating between your position and the Catholic position vis-a-vis homosexuality. Based on your most recent post -- that "ex" homosexuals are not immune from homosexual temptations -- I have concluded that the difference is phantasmagorical. Thank you for your time.
30,787 posted on 02/28/2002 6:14:17 AM PST by eastsider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30759 | View Replies]

To: angelo
But observant Jews follow all of the Law that they are able to follow in the absence of the temple.
The JEWS are now 'a nation again'. WHY haven't they built a 'temple' in the last fifty years?

It would seem like the 'observant' would NEED it and the 'reform' would be proud of it?

30,788 posted on 02/28/2002 6:14:44 AM PST by Elsie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30747 | View Replies]

To: ksen
Re 30699

I went to public High School in NH in the mid-1980's. They still offered Latin as one of the courses to fulfill the two-year foreign language requirement. I took two years of it but now I wish I had paid more attention.

My public HS in the 80s also offered up to 4 years of Latin. I took Latin I during my senior year, mostly as a goof off elective, and have retained very little. I do know enough to snicker at folks who say things like "I'm an alumni."

SD

30,789 posted on 02/28/2002 6:15:15 AM PST by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30768 | View Replies]

To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
"Modern European political philosophy is now based on Rousseau rather that Scripture and Tradition."

Which, IMO, precisely explains Western Civilization's current descent into savagery -though a savagery about which there is nothing noble.

30,790 posted on 02/28/2002 6:16:24 AM PST by AlguyA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30783 | View Replies]

To: eastsider
I have concluded that the difference is phantasmagorical.

Is that the word for "Havoc gets to act superior and throw mud at the Catholics cause he doesn't understand concepts like "chastity" or what "intrinsically evil" means?"

SD

30,791 posted on 02/28/2002 6:16:59 AM PST by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30787 | View Replies]

To: AlguyA
Which, IMO, precisely explains Western Civilization's current descent into savagery -though a savagery about which there is nothing noble.

We'll always have Helium. Argon. Neon, etc.

SD

30,792 posted on 02/28/2002 6:17:52 AM PST by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30790 | View Replies]

To: ALL
Good grief! Are y'all still at it? I thought for sure that this thread would be gone when I got back. ;o)

Thursday, February 28, 2002

First Reading:
Responsorial Psalm:
Gospel:

Jeremiah 17:5-10
Psalm 1:1-6
Luke 16:19-31

When you see anyone who desires esteem and honors and avoids contempt, and who when contradicted or neglected, shows resentment and takes it ill, you may be sure that such a one, though he were to perform miracles, is very far from perfection, for all his virtue is without foundation. 

 -- St. Thomas Aquinas

Seemingly out of the blue, the prophet Jeremiah declares, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt" (Jeremiah 17:9). If this is true, why have we been taught about the goodness of all creation? Doesn't Jeremiah's statement contradict the teaching that we are made good by God?

We are indeed made in God's image, and God delights in each and every one of us. But we don't have to look too deeply into ourselves to discover that something in us has gone astray from God's intentions. Our hearts betray our best intentions. We tend to say hurtful things to those we love the most. We try to be humble, but we still find ourselves at times pulling others down or making a show of our talents or knowledge. Many saints warned of the danger of starting some service or project humbly, following an inspiration of the Holy Spirit, only to find later that we have pursued it with ego and pride. St. Paul describes the exasperation of dealing with the heart when he says, "I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do" (Romans 7:19).

So why should we try to do God's will at all? Perhaps a better question is why God bothers with us at all? God can see the darkness in our hearts far better than we can, yet he never stops loving us. He never asks whether we are worth his time and attention. Why? Because he knows we're worth it! We are more precious to him than we can ever imagine.

Here's the key: God doesn't just want to show us where we are off course so we can correct a few faults. He wants to share his very life with us. By the transforming power of his Spirit, he wants to give us a new heart and a new mind, one that trusts him as fully as Jeremiah exhorted the people of Jerusalem to do (Jeremiah 17:7-8). We don't have to wait until we die, or until the Second Coming, to experience this transformation. Even today, we can take one more step toward that complete transformation Jesus longs to give us.

"Lord, I praise you for choosing to work so powerfully in my life! I will place my trust in you and know that my life is safe in your hands."

----------

Have a great day, everyone!

AC

30,793 posted on 02/28/2002 6:19:27 AM PST by al_c
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30773 | View Replies]

To: SoothingDave
We'll always have Helium.

When I type to you my keyboard makes a high squeaky sound.

30,794 posted on 02/28/2002 6:20:22 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30792 | View Replies]

To: angelo
Re 30723

That would make sense, considering that the Franks were a Germanic tribe, and ended up speaking a Latin derivative. But of course, they would not have needed to import the Latin from Rome, since Gaul had been a Roman province for hundreds of years, and Latin would have been the "lingua franca" even after the collapse of Rome. So the Franks picked it up from the natives.

This is assuming that the "natives" spoke Latin and not some corrupted mishmash of developing what we now call French. If the natives spoke some "pidgin" tongue, then actual Latin would need to be brought in from Rome.

I don't know what the actual case is, but it was several hundred years from the end of the Empire, so it wouldn't suprise me.

SD

30,795 posted on 02/28/2002 6:20:24 AM PST by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30766 | View Replies]

To: al_c
Have a great day, everyone!

Yo Al. Welcome back. I've missed the daily spam. :-)

30,796 posted on 02/28/2002 6:21:30 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30793 | View Replies]

To: SoothingDave
"We'll always have Helium. Argon. Neon, etc.

8-).

30,797 posted on 02/28/2002 6:22:25 AM PST by AlguyA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30792 | View Replies]

To: Elsie
The lesson was that God does not want human sacrifice.

Then what DOES He want?

Surely you jest. The univerally understood message of the Abraham and Isaac tale you cite is that God does NOT desire human sacrifice.

SD

30,798 posted on 02/28/2002 6:22:30 AM PST by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30739 | View Replies]

To: SoothingDave
he doesn't understand concepts like "chastity" or what "intrinsically evil" means?"

That may or may not be true but I bet he understands "invincibly ignorant". :-)

30,799 posted on 02/28/2002 6:23:16 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30791 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant
When I type to you my keyboard makes a high squeaky sound.

Hmmm. Sounds more like a mouse than a keyboard.

SD

30,800 posted on 02/28/2002 6:23:24 AM PST by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30794 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 30,761-30,78030,781-30,80030,801-30,820 ... 37,681-37,689 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson