The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[Joyful Wisdom]

Lurker jumping in for a second. Mr. Old Reggie you say Mr. Soothing Dave is misrepresenting Sola Scriptura because the definition is 'scripture is paramount' not 'scripture is exclusive' But when Mr. SD uses a bible quote and historical records to help interpret, he is lambasted for being extra-biblical in his interpretation. If scripture is paramount; the use of history, context, language, to interpret should be acceptable under Sola Scriptura as long as the interpretation is not contrary to other parts of the bible. consistency in definition and application is needed on both sides. Lurker fading back into the backgroung...

[D-fendr]

Thank you for your response to "how do you accept His gift of salvation?":

"Believe that you are a sinner in need of a savior, and that Jesus Christ is that savoir, and he is the only savior."

Leaving aside degrees of belief and the difference between belief and know; why did you decide to choose to believe this? Was it in order to receive the gift?

[Proud2BAmerican]

You don't mean to imply that attending Mass is the prescribed way to learn Scripture?

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Prescribed by whom?

[Havoc]

(See ADVENT; LENT)

See toilet; Flush.

[OLD REGGIE]

Thanks very much. At first I thought you were pulling my leg when the Latin version came up.

I don't want to be too much of a pain in the neck but, are you aware of a Catholic (1994) Version of the RSV available on-line?

I am aware of the Douay-Rheims available on-line. In fact, I posted a link to it. My statement was that the Vulgate and the Douay-rheims were out of print. I remember getting that info from (I think) a book site. I hope you don't make me prove it but, if you insist, I will look it up one more time.

[OLD REGGIE]

. If scripture is paramount; the use of history, context, language, to interpret should be acceptable under Sola Scriptura as long as the interpretation is not contrary to other parts of the bible. consistency in definition and application is needed on both sides

Would you be surprised if I said I was in total agreement with this statement?

I wish you would, at least, step back in long enough to provide the instances where SD was accused of "extra Scriptural" interpretations.

Caveat: If I didn't accuse him I may not defend the accusation.

[Titanites]

My statement was that the Vulgate and the Douay-rheims were out of print. I remember getting that info from (I think) a book site. I hope you don't make me prove it but, if you insist, I will look it up one more time.

Available from Amazon.

[Titanites]

A useful site for comparing several versions of the Bible (including Douay-Rheims):

English Bible Search

[OLD REGGIE]

A useful site for comparing several versions of the Bible (including Douay-Rheims):

English Bible Search

Thanks. This can be very useful. It is the first site I've seen with RSV and Douay-Rheims together for comparison.

[OLD REGGIE]

Prescribed by whom?

Your PCP, otherwise you pay full price.

[dignan3]

Just pick up the 66 books of the Bible today and put away the old garbage. Learn the Bible, love it, and accept the Lord. He'll get you through without the nonsense and lies. He'll guide your path to someone who can teach you the basics, And God will teach you the rest

If we follow you advice, then why should I have to depend on a mere man to teach me even "the basics"? If they are so basic why shouldn't I just be able to pick up the Bible and learn "the basics" on my own? How will I know that the man sent to me won't teach me new garbage? Jeez, you're not even being consistent with your stated first principle!

What happens when I come across someone else who follows your advice and yet we disagree about what Scripture may mean? Who shall arbitrate between us? The same Scriptures which caused our disagreement? You?

Just another example of the absolute pernicious tradition of men that is the 16^th century novelty of Sola Scriptura. Make no mistake about it, the individualism which you recommend is a pure pipedream which has been weighed, it has been measured, and it has been found extremely wanting.

Pray for the Servant of the Servants of God

[OLD REGGIE]

ANYONE

I need your help concerning the brothers, cousins, kin, step brothers, (anything but blood brothers) of Jesus.

DOUAY-RHEIMS

Psalm 68

Christ in his passion declareth the greatness of his sufferings, and the malice of his persecutors the Jews; and foretelleth their reprobation.
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1 Unto the end, for them that shall be changed; for David.

2 Save me, O God: for the waters are come in even unto my soul.

3 I stick fast in the mire of the deep and there is no sure standing. I am come into the depth of the sea, and a tempest hath overwhelmed me.

4 I have laboured with crying; my jaws are become hoarse, my eyes have failed, whilst I hope in my God.

5 They are multiplied above the hairs of my head, who hate me without cause. My enemies are grown strong who have wrongfully persecuted me: then did I pay that which I took not away.

6 O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my offences are not hidden from thee:

7 Let not them be ashamed for me, who look for thee, O Lord, the Lord of hosts. Let them not be confounded on my account, who seek thee, O God of Israel.

8 Because for thy sake I have borne reproach; shame hath covered my face.

9 I am become a stranger to my brethren, and an alien to the sons of my mother.
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The sons of whose mother?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

If you are looking at different bible versions, first let me say I stick with the KJV, but it can be difficult. I have found IMO for me that the Amplified Version helps more then any of the more modern ones. I have no clue if you can find it on the internet though.

Becky

[Havoc]

Me:
Just pick up the 66 books of the Bible today and put away the old garbage. Learn the Bible, love it, and accept the Lord. He'll get you through without the nonsense and lies. He'll guide your path to someone who can teach you the basics, And God will teach you the rest

Diggy:
If we follow you advice, then why should I have to depend on a mere man to teach me even "the basics"? If they are so basic why shouldn't I just be able to pick up the Bible and learn "the basics" on my own? How will I know that the man sent to me won't teach me new garbage? Jeez, you're not even being consistent with your stated first principle!

As usual, denying God and His spirit in favor of an opportunity to attack the bogus red herring and deflect attention from the truth. That or you are purposedly misstating the argument in order to argue a red herring rather than truth. Either way, you can't abide the truth and won't deal with it. Jesus is the only way. Proclaim it or deny it.. That means the Spirit of God is to be our guide.

Of course, you don't want to argue that or you wouldn't have completely ignored it in your prior assault. Is your spirit so opposed to truth that you must attack it at any cost. I've no agenda. And I'm telling people to let the Lord lead them.. Wow. Sounds just - just terrible. Wanna crucify me for it? (wink).

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

abstinence purifies the soul, elevates the mind, subordinates the flesh to the spirit, begets a humble and contrite heart, scatters the clouds of concupiscence, extinguishes the fire of lust, and enkindles the true light of chastity.

I got it, I got it, I got it, why didn't someone tell me this sooner? "No meat and I can get to heaven." I haveeeeeeeeeeee seennnnnnnnnnn theeeeeeeeee lighttttttttttt.

And all the time I thought lent was something in my belly button!

Thank you JHavard for sharing this with me, hay Becky look what I just found out. :)

BigMack

[OLD REGGIE]

Just another example of the absolute pernicious tradition of men that is the 16th century novelty of Sola Scriptura. Make no mistake about it, the individualism which you recommend is a pure pipedream which has been weighed, it has been measured, and it has been found extremely wanting.

Do you really believe you will gain credibility if you keep repeating this bull?

St. Augustine.

Whatever our Saviour would have us read of his actions and sayings he commanded his apostles and disciples, as his hands, to write. (De Consensu Evang. 1:ult)

or . . .

Augustine ("De bono viduitatis", [The Advantage of Widowhood]2):

"What more shall I teach you than what we read in the apostle? For holy Scripture fixes the rule for our doctrine, lest we dare to be wiser than we ought . . . Therefore, I should not teach you anything else except to expound to you the words of the Teacher."

or . . . Augustine "Contra litteras Petiliana", (Against the Letters of Petiliana) Bk.3, ch.6:

"If anyone preaches either concerning Christ or concerning His church or concerning any other matter which pertains to our faith and life; I will not say, if we, but what Paul adds, if an angel from heaven should preach to you anything besides what you have received in the Scriptures of the Law and the Gospels, let him be anathema."

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"16th century novelty of Sola Scriptura. . ."

No, my friend, the novelty is the pernicious development of tricks to fool the people.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

It's kind of hard to think about what my motives were. I am one of those people who are not sure of the moment I was saved like some people can say. To tell the truth I resisted for along time, wanting so bad to continue to believe in my catholic upbringing. It was hard to let go of things I was taught as a child, but the more I studied the bible truly seeking the truth I had to change. But I beleive it was probably fear of hell at first that made me finally fully accept that salvation came only one way and that was through the saving grace of Jesus Christ. But the more I continued to study the more I realized God was not something to fear like I feared Him at the first.

Becky

[Proud2BAmerican]

Do you know what Augustine had to say regarding his belief in the Gospel?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Interpretation should include 3 criteria: literal, historical, grammatical.

Becky

[Conservative til I die]

I find that funny. The more that I read the Bible, the more I actually see the truth of Catholic teachings.