Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
If you are sick, or caring for someone who is, or tied down in infant care or under a load of snow, those are good excuses. No penalty falls for having a good excuse for missing an "obligated" Mass. If you're too sick to go to Church, you're too sick to go to Church. It's not a sin.
Bot going cause you got too drunk the night before, is.
SD
Not a good excuse - we have those Saturday at 4:00 Masses. When I met my non C husband he informed me that the Saturday Masses are said for those that want to go out Saturday night to get drunk and sleep in Sunday mornings... it's funny what you learn about your faith from others!
No, He was pointing this man to the law. The Law was given to bring a person to Christ. Did you know this is the basic reason that God gave the Law? The Bible makes this very clear by using the illustration of a schoolmaster:
Wherefore, the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. (Galatians 3:24, 25)
The Law was given in order that we might see who God is and that we might see ourselves and also see the great chasm between us that we cannot bridge. The Law was a slave, if you please, for that was what the schoolmaster was who is spoken of here.
You know you don’t keep the Law; all you have to do is examine your own heart to know that. When you see your hopeless, helpless condition, the Law then becomes the one who takes you by the hand and brings you to Christ. Christ is the One who kept the Law, and because He died on the cross, paying the penalty for your sin, it is possible for a holy God to accept you without lowering His standard. The penalty is paid, and now He can receive you, a vile sinner, a lawbreaker, a transgressor, and bring you into the presence of God.
Do you think this kind of love is impossible?
No, There was no power to express and realize the love of God in the Old Testament. None whatever. As best I can tell, God said, “This is it, I’ve put it on the line. You either do it or you don’t do it. And if you don’t do it, I’ll punish you. If you do it, I’ll bless you.” Well, they didn’t do it. And the consequences? Look at the history of the Jewish people for the past 3,000 years. An example is their treatment by Hitler, who had some six million Jews killed. But if they could have kept God’s Law, not one hand would ever have been put on them. They are a witness to the world that you cannot please God by doing something. They tried it, and they had ideal conditions for it—which we don’t have.
God today is saying to mankind, “You have not met My standard, but I am prepared to reach down and lift you up.” That is the reason He sent Christ into the world. And now He says that those who have come to Him and are really born-again children of God are to express that same kind of love. He also says, “I’ll give you the power for it today—the fruit of the Spirit is love.” Now after that, there are other fruits that apparently stem from love, because the language, the grammar, is quite exact. The fruit of the Spirit is not our love, joy, peace, et cetera, but it is His love working through us. The one fruit is love, and out of love comes “joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control…” (Galatians 5:22, 23). This is what is produced, not by our own effort but by the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer.
BigMack
I'm sure you're being facetious, but the idea of the vigil Mass is deplored by some traditionalists exactly because of this idea. The true idea is that the vigil is for people who, for good reason, can not attend on Sunday.
SD
God says if you seek Him with all your heart you will find Him, and that His people perish because of lack of knowledge of Him. Its a lonely place in this world when you do find Him, but the retirement plan is great! :)
BigMack
I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Amen
That's why I pointed it out. It was too serendipitious to pass up.
1. A spiritual Church, Christ its foundr, its only head and law giver.
2. Its ordinances, only two, Baptism, and the Lord's Supper. They are typical and memeorial, not saving.
3.Its officers, only two, bishops or pastors and deacons; they are servants of the churcth.
4. Its Government, a pure Democracy, and that executive only never legislative.
5.Its laws and doctrines: The NT and that only.
6.Its members. Believers only, they saved by grace, not works, through the regenerating power of the HS>
7. Its requirements. Believers on entering the church to be baptized, that by immersion, then obedience and loyalty to all NT laws.
8. The various churches - separate and independent in their execution of laws and discipline and in their responsibliliities to God - but cooperative in work.
9. Complete separation of Church and state.
10.Absolute Religious Liberty for all.
Becky
Of course you know I have no problem with you attending two different churches. And I don't really care what the Catholic Church's opinion is on the subject. Being a good husband, father, and (for you!) Christian is more important than being a "good Catholic".
I hope it works out for you as the kids get older. If not handled delicately, it can get confusing being brought up in two different churches, with somewhat different beliefs. At some point, you may just have to pick one to raise your kids in. I know, because I'm in the same position.
And that it could be remedied except that they "they don't have a clue about what some of these people on here say that all signifies."
It could be suggested that they, as you say, look deeper into their faith, but not if they are unwilling.
Seems another impasse, doesn't it?
Maybe there's another way to look at it. Given two assumptions you've described:
1) They lack heart knowledge of Jesus Christ; and,
2)You cannot have a religious discussion with them.
The question that leads to is:
Is it possible to communicate heart knowledge of Jesus Christ while avoiding what they would think is a religious discussion?
uh, that's serendipitous. Good job trad. Use a big word and then misspell it.
Yes very much so, Christians should live their lives at all times (most of us fail miserably at this:(, and then even during trials God's peace (Heart knowledge) will show in thier lives. It will be apparent to people watching and hopefully they might ask where your peace comes from. This is my understanding of being a witness for Jesus.
Becky
Would there be any benefit to them seing RCs say things like "you don't get to go to heaven just because you go to mass every week" or "you can't get in by being a 'good' person", "You can't earn your way to Heaven" "Catholics whould read their bibles and know them" ?
Jesus commandments were given in response to their current understanding of the "law" as something done legally, as a requirement or obligation or as something in order to earn a reward — as a work.
I understand you see the Ten Commandments as works, but is love a 'works'?
Do you not love God above all else? Does this then mean you don't sin?
I am confused between what Jesus taught and what you derive from it. I don't understand it such that Jesus taught us not to follow the commandments, or that we could perfectly, but rather to see them as they were in truth, how they asked us to relate to God and our fellow man. Even more as truth: If we see the truth of our existence, this love is the unavoidable and natural result. This is how spirit and truth are.
I believe Jesus is saying if you love something more than God and if you love your self more than your neighbor, you still have more to grow.
As far as salvation, is it your position that you could love your self more than your neighbor and love something more than God and realize eternal life?
If so, perhaps we are speaking of different things.
thanks for your reply…
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