The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[IMRight]

There is a danger in forcing people to do things in the church (like tithing, fasting, etc) because it can lead to legalism and lose life. Lose revelation. Do it because you feel God is asking it of you. Do it because it will draw you closer to God.

I think most Catholics would agree with most of your post but disagree that they are being "forced" by the Church to make sacrifices. As an example, in addittion to fasting and meatless Fridays during Lent, Catholics also choose to make some other sacrifice(s) of there own choosing because it "draws us closer to God".

Of course, we also believe that if God is asking something of us, the Church usually can be found asking the same thing.

[SoothingDave]

I just deleted a page of answers to you when I realized it had a common denominator, and that is, all the above are matters of free will and free choice, and not church doctrine or policy that you as a member, you have to agree to when you join.

I don't know of any church that takes something like Bible study or prayer meetings, and then tell you that you are sinning if you don’t attend them.

OK, so your Church doesn't claim to have the power to bind and loose. Mine does. That doesn't change the point that you implicated all Catholics in "vain repetition" when your co-religionists also engage in (freely willed) repetition.

SD

[JHavard]

I FOUND THE MAGIC STERNUM!!!

It's times like this, I almost wish I was catholic, think of the money to be made selling minature Magic Sternum's on a neck chain as a religious artifact or relic.Lol (^g^)

[JohnnyM]

"So, God's grace is limited?"

Only by man. God gave us a free will. So we can either choose God or reject Him. I don't understand how this is so hard to understand. God's grace is available to all, but only those who ACCEPT it will reap the benefits. God said here is my Son. He is the perfect sacrifice for your sins. Do you accept it? If not, you will be judged by the Law and be found guilty and without excuse. If you accept Him, then the Blood of Jesus Christ covers your sins and you are seen as rigtheous in the eyes of God. God is a Holy God and he cannot accept sin. The issue of sin must be taken care of. It is taken care of once and for all on the Cross. So you can choose to have Jesus as your sacrifice or choose to earn righteousness through our own means. I choose Christ.

JM

[malakhi]

Who said you need to be Catholic to cash in on this lucrative proposition? I mean, if some people will buy the 'Buddy Jesus'... ;o)

[OLD REGGIE]

I don't think He was ever bad, I could be wrong. Perhaps you can give us a Biblical reference?

I think most catholics forget the human side of life, and she was just as human as you were, I think when he was 12 years old, he told them in more or less words, get a life Mom and Dad, I have my Fathers work to do.

First, I don't think they minded. Second, I really don't think Jesus would say that to His parents. After all, wouldn't that be braking His own rules?
------------------------------------------------------------

Luke 2:

41 Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the Passover.
42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up according to custom;
43 and when the feast was ended, as they were returning, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem. His parents did not know it,
44 but supposing him to be in the company they went a day's journey, and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintances;
45 and when they did not find him, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking him.
46 After three days they found him in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions;
47 and all who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers.
48 And when they saw him they were astonished; and his mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for you anxiously."

49 And he said to them, "How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house?"
50 And they did not understand the saying which he spoke to them.
51 And he went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was obedient to them; and his mother kept all these things in her heart.
52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man.
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Close enough?

A question for you: Why do you suppose Mary "did not understand the saying which he spoke to them"?

[IMRight]

I didn't even have to type a whole page response. But if I did, the theme would be amazement that you would believe "obey the authority that is placed over as that authority comes from God" must refer only to temporal human authorities and assume that there can be no authority within any church. And whether you admit it or not, most non-Catholic churches do set up authorities (the missions board determines who gets money, the Pastor determines the message, the music director determines the order and type of worship) it's just that the individual is on his own in matters of Faith, interpretation (and even determination of the canon for some). Of course the Spirit guides this process, but He appears to be guiding you in all diferent directions (methinks He has a sense of humor?)

[IMRight]

That Sternum is a FAKE! The real Sternum is always displayed on a red background (except during Advent when it is purple, pink, or white depending on the day)

[Titanites]

Now you've done it. You will realize the penalty for revealing the Magic Sternum.

[Titanites]

Scripture means alot to them (especially RobbyS) when they can throw it at ya to say things like protestantism is antichrist in nature and the whore of Babylon.

This is becoming boring. The more you repeat this the more you might believe it, right? I saw RobbyS' original post regarding this, and he didn't say what you claim, and you know it.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

When you do it by choice it probably does bring your focus to God. But as a child I was not given a choice of having meat on Fri. or not. I was told if I ate meat on Fri. it was a sin, that I would have to confess to a priest to be forgiven of or else. Now what does that do to children? Why did they view it as a sin that would send me to hell if you are not a works based religion? And if the rules have changed what happened to the people who ate meat on Fri. didn't confess before they died? Are they in hell? Either answer will not be fair, so where is the justice in that?

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

God never said don't eat meat on Fri. the religion did.

Answer the rest of the questions.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

What part of "Not of works lest any man should boast" don't you understand? When you are forced to do something by the church, and condemed to hell if you don't, that is works.

Becky

[malakhi]

When I was a child, I didn't have a choice as to what time I went to bed. Do/did you have kids? Do/did they have a choice as to whether or not to go to church? Children have to do a lot of things their parents decide for them.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Also, how can something be a sin one day and not the next? What of the people who commited the sin when it was a sin, but now it is not a sin.

1 Cor 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace as in all churches of the saints.

Becky

[SoothingDave]

When you do it by choice it probably does bring your focus to God. But as a child I was not given a choice of having meat on Fri. or not. I was told if I ate meat on Fri. it was a sin, that I would have to confess to a priest to be forgiven of or else. Now what does that do to children? Why did they view it as a sin that would send me to hell if you are not a works based religion? And if the rules have changed what happened to the people who ate meat on Fri. didn't confess before they died? Are they in hell? Either answer will not be fair, so where is the justice in that?

When you are a child you were not given free use of your will. Sometimes you had to obey.

In some sense we are all children of God and we should all obey Him. We believe He establshed a Church, an authortative Church, and behave accordingly.

If you believe in the authority of the Church, then you should obey it. Period. If you do not obey, willfully, then you are basically being disobedient to God. That is a sin. If it was church law to abstain on Friday and you ignored the law for no good reason that is a sin. If it is not a law then eaing meat on Friday is not a sin. It has absolutely nothing to do with the act of eating meat itself. It is completely arbitrary. Disobeying the Church is a sin now. It was a sin then.

Someone who made a habit of being willfully disobedient to God's church will be judged for what they have done.

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

But in this case it is not the parents giving the orders. The church made up a law and told their members that if they did not follow THEIR law they would go to hell. This is adding works to the plan of salvation.

Becky

[SoothingDave]

What part of "Not of works lest any man should boast" don't you understand? When you are forced to do something by the church, and condemed to hell if you don't, that is works.

So anything we do, or refrain from doing, is a "work"?

God has a list of things we shouldn't do. They are called Commandments. I realize you probably don't think they apply to you because you are "saved," but most Christians try to adhere to them. Are they doing this as a "work"? Isn't God "forcing" us to follow them under threat of eternal punishment?

SD