The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
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[Havoc]

The subtle point by inferance is that mary mad a God. Which, she did not. But, the which inferrance is used to underscore the Marian cult.

[Pelayo]

The elaborations needlessly made on them via logic and reason turn them into an inferrance that Mary gave birth to God - which she did not.

Do you then believe that Jesus became God after he was born? If so your not the first to blaspheme this way. Or do you believe the Christ/God came into the body of Jesus after he was born? not the first to entertain that nonsense either.

[dignan3]

The elaborations needlessly made on them via logic and reason turn them into an inferrance that Mary gave birth to God - which she did not

Once again we see you equating birthing with generation. They are not the same thing. Try again.

Pray for John Paul II

[malakhi]

Even in a normal 'non-virgin' birth, no mother makes a baby. God creates life; we merely cooperate.

[RobbyS]

If you had only the Gospel of Mark, what would you say Jesus is?

[SoothingDave]

25 but knew her not until she had borne a son; and he called his name Jesus.

I imagine you believe he didn't know who she was until she had borne a son?

No. Try again.

This is what is called a Biblical euphemism. In the quaint old days they didn't speak of sex or pregnancy directly. Saying that someone "knew" someone is a euphemism meaning that they had had sexual intercourse.

The point to this little story is that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born. That's all. The point is not what happened after and this does not speak at all about what happens after. It speaks to the fact that they did not have sex at all before Jesus was born. That makes it a miracle we call "the Virgin Birth"

SD

[RobbyS]

The Donatist rebellion was as much a rebellion against Roman authirity as a religious movement, and its exponents were cut-throats who did more executing. than the Romans did. Augustine's "just-war" doctrine was not acdemic but his response to civl war and. later, Vandal invasion.

[OLD REGGIE]

I DO NOT SMOKE!!!!!!

Have I ever smoked?

Will I ever smoke?

You are not making sense. By that, I don't mean to imply you have never made sense or never will make sense. Got it?

[OLD REGGIE]

Sorry, Havoc, but I have to disagree with you on this one. The obligation for children to care for their parents is a matter of God's commandment. The firstborn cannot arbitrarily remove this obligation from his brothers.

Jesus did what he did for his own purposes. After all, it was the New Covenant.

[SoothingDave]

I DO NOT SMOKE!!!!!!

Have I ever smoked?

Will I ever smoke?

"I do not smoke" implies a willful intention to refrain from smoking. "I didn't smoke" only implies that smoking didn't occur at the time in question.

Seriously, if you can't see the difference between the usage "I didn't drink (last night)" (what about tonight? what about the night before?) and "I don't drink" (period.) I can't help you.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

The point to this little story is that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born. That's all. The point is not what happened after and this does not speak at all about what happens after. It speaks to the fact that they did not have sex at all before Jesus was born. That makes it a miracle we call "the Virgin Birth"

Forgive my weak attempt at facetiousness(sp). I understand what it means. And I understand it (the virginity thing) no longer applied after the birth of Jesus. What do you think it means?

[RobbyS]

However, the idea expressed by RobbyS, that Mary could not have other children or the Incarnation is void is a bit curious to me and I have a large problem with that.

No, my idea is that the contention by Helvidius that Mary had other children undercut or at least diluted the notion that Jesus was divine. It fits the Arian notion that Jesus was a kind of kuku in the nest.

[malakhi]

Jesus did what he did for his own purposes. After all, it was the New Covenant.

Havoc was making a general comment about Jewish custom ("It is the right of the heir to determine what will be."). It was this generality I was addressing.

[SoothingDave]

Forgive my weak attempt at facetiousness(sp).

I "saw" your facetiousness and "raised" you some more of mine. :-)

I understand what it means. And I understand it (the virginity thing) no longer applied after the birth of Jesus. What do you think it means?

Like I said, this passge points to the Virgin Birth. That's it. This is Steven's famous motto (Matt 1:25). It is believed by many that saying they had no relations "until" Jesus was born means that they had them afterward. This is your and Steven's reading.

We have shown before that there are instances in the Bible when the word "till" is used that do not imply that things changed after the "till" event happened. "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for you." Does this mean after the enemies are "footstooled" that he is to no longer sit at the right hand?

No. Of course not. So we can't say "till" always in the Bible means that things change afterward. So does "they didn't have relations till Jesus was born" mean they did afterward? You think so, I don't. Commenting on the future sex life of Mary and Joseph certainly wasn't the intent of the writer of this passage.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

I'm with you. Whether Mary was, or was not, a Perpetual Virgin is of little meaning to me. It is critical to our RC brothers however. This is one of the "infallible" teachings of the Church.

When the dogmatic statement "Mary - Perpetual Virgin" is made it must be answered.

[RobbyS]

Jesus did what he did for his own purposes. After all, it was the New Covenant.

He was still a Jew and had always behaved like a Jew. Why should he change now?

[RobbyS]

It is critical to our RC brothers however. This is one of the "infallible" teachings of the Church.

Don't forget the Orthodox! On this, Protestants are distinctly in the minority.

[dadwags]

#1186,87,etc.
One more example. A few years ago, my son was in college and had a roommate from Afghanistan . we had him over for dinner one evening and he was telling us about people in his village . He kept mentioning his "sister" and very much later in the story we learned that the sister was not his mother's or father's daughter, but another relative who lived in the same village . This doesn't prove anything . It just shows that in other cultures, brother and sister can refer to other relatives .
Let's just get on to another subject, like, maybe, do you think the braves can make it to the WS this year ?

[hopefulpilgrim]

Those of us who know calculus have to take a constant beating from well-intentioned but mathematically uncurious people for "inventing" things that aren't in their "elementary mathematics" book. And rather than try to understand that the elements of elmentary math go together to make up calculus, they call us devils for refusing to stick to "just the elementary math book."

Probably because much of your version of calculus is invented. The real calculus is in the Scriptures, and it is a never-ending discovery.....