Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
LOL
I did take it into consideration. Makes perfect sense in context to me. Don't need to consult greek dictionaries on this one.
Matthew 12;46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
When Jesus said this he had just left a synagogue and found himself in the middle of a great multitude, some of which he just healed for cryin' out loud. Surrounding him were no brethren at the time? Did the one say to him your mother and brethren other than the ones surrounding you at the moment wish to speak with you?
Verse 50 again, For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother
If he was just speaking of brethren, why did he include "mother" in this sentence? Angelo, read these verses again in context and honestly tell me you need to grab a Greek dictionary to grasp the meaning.
Nope. It isn't strange. It is the right of the heir to determine what will be. Custome or normalcy has nothing to do with it. It isn't normal for people to have their noses changed to look completely different than what they were born with. By your logic, one with lack of information to the contrary could look on Michael Jackson for the first time and reason that it must be his nose as it was when he was born because it isn't normal for people to alter them. You rule out all alternatives on the basis of maybes and rule in other alternatives on the same basis when you have no real ground to begin questioning the validity of the Bible. The Bible says Jesus had brothers and sisters. The people pointed out that these brothers and sisters are of the same line ('And are not these "HIS" sisters..') etc.
Fact is, you are relying on a pile of if's and wishes and there is doctrine that the RCC has built upon as much. The doctrine proclaims itself as truth in absence of any supporting evidence and inspite of loud evidence, nay, truth to the contrary.
Fair enough! Frankly, I don't think this issue is very significant anyway.
Frankly, I think if the catholic church is engaged in willful scripture twisting people ought to know about it.
Oh! I see now. Any 12 year old who asks the same questions actually means she intends to remain a life-long virgin. Thanks for these words of wisdom.
No, but any life-long virgin would answer in that way. Look at the words again. Consider this:
"Was that you I saw posting while all drunk yesterday?"
"No, I wasn't drinking yesterday"
versus
"Was that you I saw posting while all drunk yesterday?"
"No, I DO NOT drink."
Not "I haven't had relations with a man" which implies a "yet", but "I DO NOT have relations with men"
SD
I can see why you'd want us to drop the subject. Becoming an embarrassment.
Again? I wasn't aware they'd stopped..
Hmm, if I understand you correctly, in addressing the crowd, Jesus is including at least some of his real family in those who he calls his brothers and sisters? An interesting take, and one I haven't seen anyone else say. Makes sense.
Angelo, read these verses again in context and honestly tell me you need to grab a Greek dictionary to grasp the meaning.
Personally, I think Jesus did have brothers and sisters. Since I have no ideological point to make, the most obvious reading is that they were brothers and not cousins. 'Course, I don't believe in the virgin birth either, so I'm not sure how much of my support you want! ;o)
What I am doing is corroborating the the narrow point that there is no explicit word for "cousin" in Hebrew or Aramaic.
Goes to credibility. They have made doctrine on this basis and wish to sell it as truth. It serves as example of where they've been wrong on doctrine and tradition both. In being errant here as well, it nulls the claim of inerrancy and infallibility along with the usefulness of tradition and of doctrine as compared with scripture. All tidied up in one nice package.
They certainly shed a different light to the "I intend to remain a life-long virgin" question.
There is an RSV Catholic version which is approved. I don't know about the NASB. The point is that even if the translation is approved it doesn't make it authoritative. You have to go to the original for that. A translation which says "I don't have a husband" is not actually translating the Greek, but rather translating the "idea" into a modern representation. This is surely not the type of text to make such important judgments from.
This is why one person sitting down and making so much from what the Bible "says" is dangerous.
Sorry, Havoc, but I have to disagree with you on this one. The obligation for children to care for their parents is a matter of God's commandment. The firstborn cannot arbitrarily remove this obligation from his brothers.
allend, I tend to agree with them. But I don't think the matter is nearly as cut-and-dried as they think it is. I think the Catholic interpretation is a plausible one.
Nope. Just trying to get you to clarify what you were talking about yesterday. It's like pulling teeth. When you speak you wouldn't get "raked" if you tried to just answer the questions posed in a clear manner and didn't turn everything into a rant about how evil we all are.
When you don't speak is golden.
BTW, what subjects do you use for your art? Oh, and which statement don't you believe: Jesus is God or Mary gave birth to Jesus?
SD
Ok. I'll let you have the last word. We'll let the viewers judge.
Who said she did?
The question is did Mary have God in her womb?
SD
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