The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[malakhi]

I didn't even read this, but I'm bumping you on it because I think this is the longest thread I have ever seen in my life.

Hi Serb. Actually, this is the thread under the NEW format. Prior to this, there were 162 previous threads of around 190 replies each. With the new style, we can go on and on without the page downloads getting too long. At least until we hit that 65,536 post limit (that's what John Rob said the software could handle). Then we'll start a new continuation thread.

[malakhi]

Studying for finals?

[RobbyS]

It was used by those who didn't know Hebrew. My understanding that Pleastinian Jews spoke Aramaic rather than Hebrew, which I am told is as different from Hebrew as German(Hochdeutsch) is from Niederlandisch, or at least between the English of Chaucer and the English of Shakespeare. If so, then wouldn't teachers at least have had Aramaic "teaching aides" to bridge the gap between the two?

[SoothingDave]

No, although I am starting to despise what the world has made of Christmas. I like celebrating the birth of my Saviour.

But don't you see that many of the Christmas trappings, indeed the entire idea of celebrating it near the winter solstice is borrowed fromthe pagans? This is even stronger than the similarities that exist in other facets of pagantry to Christianity. We know for a fact that Christmas was propagated to replace Saturnalia. We know for a fact that the symbolism of the returning sun was appropriated to stand for the Son. We know that Everegreens represented eternal life to German pagans, and the symbole was Christened.

Maybe you eschew all of these things.

Don't you find peculiar the similarity between pagan Mother/Child worship and what Catholicism has done with Mary and the baby Jesus?

Not at all. Without an explicit revelation from the God of Abraham, the pagans were trying their best to make sense of the world. What is amazing is how close (and yet so far) they were able to come in seeking symbols of life and eternity. They just were not able, without revelation, to source these things not to a pantheon, but to the One God.

If you think that pagans had everything 100% completely wrong all the time, then I can see your point. But if you recognize that they were looking through an extremely dark glass and yet still managed to find some semblance of the True God, even if confused, it is remarkable.

You guys have even appropriated the "Queen of Heaven" title from Jeremiah for Mary. If I were Catholic that would make me a little nervous.

Not at all. We haven't taken the title "from Jeremiah." We are simply acknowledging a fact. Jesus is King. Mary is His mother. The king's mother is the Queen Mother. Period.

If I found a pagan group that considered their chief God to be a father figure, does that make Our God not a Father?

Answer that.

SD

[RobbyS]

To which I add:

"Jesus is the King, and has come to save us from our sins", "And his sacrifice on the cross covers all your sins (wink,wink)."

[JHavard]

That’s true. Genesis 3:15 has been around for a long time. It’s also possible that Satan knew about it too and has done all he could throughout history to try to counterfeit what God was going to do.

That's exactly what I was thinking as I read the piece, I had often wondered how the RCC came up with that headpiece design for Mary when it was not used as a style of that day by any of the Jews, but now we know, it was easier to leave it as it was rather then to come up with a new design. (^g^)JH

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

You raise quarter horses?

Yes, we have a stud horse that is a grand son to Poco Bueno and double bread King lines, hes a old style bulldog quarter horse. We just have 2 mares right now, but we do stand the stud for a fee. Becky does competitive trail riding and my son ropes and my daughter runs barrels. All tole we have been thru about 50 horses in the last 5 years or so, and what do I do, I get to pay for all of them. :(

BigMack

[SoothingDave]

So a year down the road, nothing will have changed, and you will be among all those who defend the will of the church to have it there

I don't see where you get that he will "defend the will of the Church to have it there." He just said that he thinks it is inapproriately placed and that he would request that the Bishop take some action. Now we all know (all together now) that the floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops, so we can't know what will occurr.

If no action is taken and the painting remains, al is certainly not going to approve and defend it being there. There are larger fights to be fought within the Church. I am sure al will save his energy for those.

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Prior to this, there were 162 previous threads of around 190 replies each.

So that puts us at about 40,000 posts, and those guys out there on FR think they freep! :)

Talk about long suffering. :)

BigMack

[RobbyS]

I get to pay for all of them. :( Come on, its worth every cent. My grandfathers on both sides were cowboys, but I'm a pathetic sight on a horse. Your stud is they used to call a Chickasaw horse?

[Aquinasfan]

No disagreement here. Don't see where the writers Paul and James were including prayer to the physically dead saints and Mary.

You just have to correlate a few scriptures:

1) Death cannot separate us from the love of Christ.

2) God is love

3) Christ is God.

4) Christ is love.

5) Death cannot separate us from Christ.

6) The baptized belong to the Body of Christ.

7) Death cannot separate us from the Body of Christ.

8) We are not separated from our brothers and sisters in heaven.

9) Scripture tells us to pray for and with each other.

10) We can ask our brothers and sisters in heaven to pray for us.

[SoothingDave]

In The Two Babylons the author attempts to tie all the pagan gods back to Babylon and Nimrod and a perverting of God’s future plan for the redemption of Mankind. He tells the story of Achilles and points out the remarkable similarities between that story and the curse pronounced in the garden that the serpent will strike “His” heel and that “He “ would crush the serpent’s head.

There are also Babylonian versions of the flood story that predate Genesis. Does this mean that the Jews just cribbed this story from an older pagan myth?

I think I hit the nail on the head. Because of Calvin (sorry) and his total depravity, you see pagans as (duh) totally depraved. That means that their myths are dibolical attempts to pervert the Truth.

By recognizing a flawed but not wretched nature of man, we relize that pagans can catch glimpses of the Truth. It is not to pervert the Truth on purpose, but a true lack of understanding caused by not being subject to Divine Revelation.

SD

[SoothingDave]

We just have 2 mares right now, but we do stand the stud for a fee.

Heh heh. You're a horse pimp. Heh heh heh. :-)

(Sorry, I couldn't resist. I'll go flagellate myself.)

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Your stud is they used to call a Chickasaw horse?

Yes, and hes a cow horse deluxe, put him in with cows and he will pin his ears back and go at them like stink on.........:).

Hes a buckskin, looks like the horse on Dances with wolfs but better built, and a good solid mind that he passes that on to his get.

BigMack

[nobdysfool]

Thanks, angelo...:o)

[ksen]

Because of Calvin (sorry) and his total depravity, you see pagans as (duh) totally depraved.

This may surprise you, but I reject T.U.L.I.P.

-ksen

[SoothingDave]

This may surprise you, but I reject T.U.L.I.P.

Even the "T"?

Oh well, still a good analysis on my part, even if it doesn't directly apply to you. Does that mean that you think pagans could glimpse the Truth, or at least parts of it evident in nature?

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Heh heh. You're a horse pimp. Heh heh heh. :-)

Yes and at 60 a year x $500 a pop. At least I get paid, what your excuse? :)

BigMack

[JHavard]

I was thinking about writing a letter to the editor of a local Catholic paper (The Texas Catholic), to the bishop and to the parish itself. Of course, the parish may not listen as it is Our Lady of Guadalupe.

Al, let me apologize for sounding like you weren't doing enough. The fact that you do think for your self and question things that just seem to happen when there is no one to account to, is saying a lot for you.

I'm not implying that you have a good protestant attitude either, because I know you don't, but it is good to see you watch out for your own faith.

Thank you for that. JH

[Invincibly Ignorant]

You just have to correlate a few scriptures:1) Death cannot separate us from the love of Christ. 2) God is love 3) Christ is God. 4) Christ is love. 5) Death cannot separate us from Christ. 6) The baptized belong to the Body of Christ. 7) Death cannot separate us from the Body of Christ. 8) We are not separated from our brothers and sisters in heaven. 9) Scripture tells us to pray for and with each other. 10) We can ask our brothers and sisters in heaven to pray for us.

After correlating 1 thru 9 (because 10 is no where in scripture and a couple of others are shaky but I'll let them slide) I don't see how any of them bolster your side of the debate.