Posted on 10/11/2001 12:18:56 AM PDT by JohnHuang2
Edited on 07/12/2004 3:47:43 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
U.S. commandos set to begin search-and-destroy missions against terrorists in Afghanistan must be prepared for a new kind of combat
(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...
Cave nukes will be the ONLY solution, shy of expending our Special Forces lives!
Afghan terrain is well suited to tunnel complexes superior to the clay-laterite we encountered in Viet Nam. These were put in place with industrial means, as opposed to manual labor, too.
I'm not a defeatist, I want them to use ground penetrator nukes and do this right, not spill a bunch of our blood rooting them out. We have way too much more that needs to be taken care of elsewhere. We can't be sucked into a long, bloody drawn-out battle of tunnel warfare that kills a bunch of our Special Forces! It would be foolish to expend their lives, when we have the nukes required at our disposal.
On a good note, the ground would contain the blast, making really small yeilds extremely effective. Most of the fallout will stay in the ground, too!
Works for me.
I agree. But do we have the political will to use nukes?
I think the President and his team will only use nukes in response to weapons of mass destruction --
or to save the lives of many thousands of troops that might otherwise be killed.
This may be more pollitically acceptable in the Arab world.
Better yet, place a fan at the cave entrance and allow my dog to break wind inside. Guaranteed surrender! lol.
And of course, the forcibly conscripted Taliban POW/defector will be our best fountain of intell. A lot of these "Taliban in name only" were taken at gunpoint after seeing family members killed and sisters raped by the "real Taliban".
When these guys come over to our side, and are given some clean clothes and hot meals and medical treatment for chronic sores and illnesses they all have, they will be gung ho to lead our specops troops straight to the Taliban leadership.
With "our" former Taliban guiding us, the "real Taliban" will not be able to hide, even if they put on filthy rags and try to pass as refugees. We are going to have plenty of "Chieu Hois" or "Kit Carson Scouts" in this war, and they will be decisive if we play it right.
In Viet Nam, (from what I heard from the guys who were there) a SEAL specialty was the fast reaction op based on FRESH intell gained from prisoners and defectors. Intell on current meeting places of VC was acted on before the VC even knew that "old Tran" had been captured. SEALs went back on ops often the very same night or next night after the POW was taken, and made terrific hits.
If our specops troops are allowed to conduct IMMEDIATE follow-up ops based on HOT intell, we will do wonders.
But if the "chain of command" insists on all intell being chewed on for days all up the line before the attacks are conducted, they will find empty caves or (worse) our planes will blow up houses now filled with refugees.
Point is, the HOT intell must be acted on ASAP, and not be allowed to grow cold before permission is granted to launch the next raid, just because 25 REMF officers insist on putting their "chop" on every mission.
We already know that these people actually hate us, they don't want to conquor and co-exist, they want to utterly distroy us. I think this is the only way to handle the situation. It will also cause the others, outside of Afganistan to pause. If they don't, I'm in favor of using the same tactics against them.
Face it folks, it's not our foreign policy, it's not our religion, it's not that they think we back Israel (Bush wanted to completely stay out of it), it's that they have to hate. The world will never be safe as long as they are allowed to exist. This isn't something we wanted, they've proved it themselves over the past few week.
I have no problem with the Muslim people, I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about the extremists who have stirred this pot to the point it has become a dangerous brew for the entire world.
Unfortunately that means someone is going to have to go into the tunnels and caves. Also they will hopefully get more prisoner intel.
Stay well - stay safe - stay armed - Yorktown
I would imagine this cave fighting will be a no holds barred deal. Particularly if heavy causalities start to roll in. These cave deals are probably booby trapped to the max. And in a war zone, it's unlikely that serious rescue operations will be mounted in hot zones.
It could get rough.
IOW, let Janet Reno run that phase.
These people really get to me. New?
Heck, the Japs were experts at caves in WWII.
Get some of those old marines that my Dad was landing on the beaches from his LCI (and since my Dad is still amongst us, healthy, alert, etc ... I have to figure a bunch of them are still among us) and have them train our guys if nothing else.
They used special flame throwers and other devices. A horrible way for those in the caves to die ... but better than letting them kill our guys by applying less obtrusive or extreme methods. The Japanese soldiers came to fear it greatly ... but they fought hard and died hard anyway.
IMHO, we need to allow these terrorists the opportunity to do the same ... die hard.
Sounds like a plan.. I'll go for that.
Check this link Shippers: Government Prior Knowledge - Pending Attack
Stay well - stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, It was the japs proving their fanaticism there that convinced us to use nukes, NOT their tunnels. I don't think Iwo Jima's caves held a candle to the tunnel complexes in Viet Nam. Cu Chi alone had 250 Kilometers of interconnected tunnels!
If Iwo Jima's complexes did compare, we didn't learn too much about tunnel warfare, considering all the expensive stuff that didn't work in Viet Nam. We tried blowing or plugging them up, pumping in gases and chemicals, sprinkling the entrances with stuff that killed them or helped us track them, we tried devices that sniffed out urine. We even tried using bedbugs that were supposed to get excited when they smelled sweat. (They couldn't tell WHOSE sweat they smelled!)
That book I keep harping about was an excellent read about all the "high tech" things the Army Warfare College (or some such name) developed and experimented with.
But it all came down this - the only thing that REALLY worked was a guy armed with a knife, small revolver, flashlight, and a rope tied to his leg, so they could drag him back out if something happened. These guys has a SET!
Most of those tunnels in Cu Chi are still there, except for the ones that were exposed by the arc light missions towards the end of our involvement. By that time, we had already been defeated by the pinkos at home.
BTW-My link doesn't go to the book, it goes to material from it with pictures that made it appear to BE the book.
IMHO, we need to allow these terrorists the opportunity to do the same ... die hard
Fill up a cave with a little propane and offer them a cigarette. Actually, in Vietnam we had a M113 with a flame thrower on it, used plain old mogas and comressed air. I don't think I have a picture of it, but will try ot find one. Nickname "Zippo" was not original, but functional.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.