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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 160
Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

Posted on 10/09/2001 12:20:12 PM PDT by malakhi

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.


Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

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Thread 158

The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 159


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
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To: SoothingDave
If the question is: Is Jesus God? I would answer unequivocally YES. He is and always has been. But the question you ignore (that others here are hinting at) is:
Did Jesus use his own divinity (power) while here on earth or did he rely only on his humanity plus the same power of God through the Holy Spirit as he would give us? Philippians chapter 2 seems indicate that he "emptied himself" (didn't use) his own divine nature while here on earth on his most holy mission for us. Perhaps this was done to serve as an example for us?
21 posted on 10/09/2001 7:47:02 PM PDT by Iowegian
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To: Pelayo
He could be tempted yes, but being God he was never in danger of sinning.

If what your say is true, that wouldn't be a true temptation at all. but just sort of an acting out of a play. That would be a silly and frivolous thing for God to do, don't you think? It also makes the Bible seem like lies, since it says he was truly tempted in all ways, and yet did not sin.

22 posted on 10/09/2001 7:52:23 PM PDT by Iowegian
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To: Pelayo
Oh cool, now we can have a Monophysite/Arian/Dyophysite discussion!

I know that some of you like to package everyone up in your neat little acronyms because then you don't have to deal with the individual, just the name in your encyclopedia that you can copy and paste arguments to, but you can't put me in your cookie mold, what I believe I have learned from my private studies, and from no one else.

I can always be wrong, and I have been before, but these are not salvation questions, but they reflect our personal studies, guided by the Holy Spirit, and that does not mean I can never be wrong, simply different.

23 posted on 10/09/2001 7:55:56 PM PDT by JHavard
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To: Iowegian
But the question you ignore (that others here are hinting at) is:
Did Jesus use his own divinity (power) while here on earth or did he rely only on his humanity plus the same power of God through the Holy Spirit as he would give us?

Thank you Iowegian, I thought I was alone on this subject.

24 posted on 10/09/2001 7:59:16 PM PDT by JHavard
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To: Iowegian conservonator
What a joke you are, a RC, preaching to us about what are "man-made traditions" not even implied in Scripture. That's rich!

It may amuse you, but there is a serious point there. conservonator has pointed out what he sees as an inconsistency in Protestant belief. Does the doctrine of sola scriptura measure up to your own standards of scriptural interpretation?

25 posted on 10/09/2001 8:05:24 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: angelo
Yes, otherwise I wouldn't believe it.
26 posted on 10/09/2001 8:08:44 PM PDT by Iowegian
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To: angelo
conservonator has pointed out what he sees as an inconsistency in Protestant belief.

And I would say to him and any other RC who spews this kind of "reasoning": Take the log out of your eye first, then you can clearly see the splinter in the eye of others.

27 posted on 10/09/2001 8:13:11 PM PDT by Iowegian
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To: JHavard
Bump (You are never alone!)
28 posted on 10/09/2001 8:14:04 PM PDT by First Conservative
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To: Blessed
To deny the Divinity of Jesus Christ is beyond the pale of orthodoxy.The common usage within Christianity for people who do this is "cultist".(Jehova'S Witness,Mormans,Christian Scientist}

More name calling and faulty packaging. Where did you get the idea that I didn't believe in the Divinity of Christ?

If I ran a factory, and I decided to go to work as a common laborer so I could see what my employees went through, and I told all my board members and executives that I didn't want anyone to know that I was the owner, and I didn't want any interference or help from anyone, if I can't make it, then I'll know that I have put to much of a workload on them.

Now first off, I can't expect help that no one else gets, I have to work a full day, a full week. or month, what ever I had agreed on, now I am still the owner, still the boss, I could still hire and fire if I wanted to, but then I would have gone back on my word, and I never would have known if I could do the same job my employees do, or if I could even do it better.

Until my job is done, I am simply an employee, no more or no less.

29 posted on 10/09/2001 8:18:05 PM PDT by JHavard
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To: Iowegian
If the question is: Is Jesus God? I would answer unequivocally YES. He is and always has been. But the question you ignore (that others here are hinting at) is: Did Jesus use his own divinity (power) while here on earth or did he rely only on his humanity plus the same power of God through the Holy Spirit as he would give us? Philippians chapter 2 seems indicate that he "emptied himself" (didn't use) his own divine nature while here on earth on his most holy mission for us. Perhaps this was done to serve as an example for us?

I wish I had said that.:-)

30 posted on 10/09/2001 8:25:00 PM PDT by JHavard
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To: JHavard
I thought I was alone on this subject.

SD is just attempting the ancient tactic of labeling his opponents as a heretic from amont their long list of church endorsed "heresies", so as to discredit whatever points they try to make about the RC church. If they can't fit you into one of these, they'll just invent some new "heresies". It a wicked game that has been practiced for centuries against good, true God-fearing Christians, who believe in what the Scriptures say above what others tell them it says.

31 posted on 10/09/2001 8:25:19 PM PDT by Iowegian
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To: JHavard
if he knew he couldn't fail

In what way do you think he could he have failed?

and gave up his divinity for 33 or so years

So the universe when 33 or so years without a God?

and he had to become more and more aware of his past life

Jesus was God reincarnated?

One more thing, please explain this if he was 100% God.

Curiouser and curiouser. What would it mean to be a fraction (say, .375) of God?

The points you raise I take one step further, and say that Jesus was not God at all.

32 posted on 10/09/2001 8:28:09 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: Iowegian
amont should be "among".
33 posted on 10/09/2001 8:28:36 PM PDT by Iowegian
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To: angelo
You already came to that conclusion, and there isn't anything we could write that would change your closed mind. You - like Pharaoh, have a hard heart, but yours is towards your true Messiah. Unfortunately, you are not unique with this problem. I don't write this out of spite or disrespect, but because it is what I truly believe.

What do you think it means in Romans (in context), where Paul writes that all Israel shall be saved?

34 posted on 10/09/2001 8:40:37 PM PDT by Iowegian
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To: angelo; Iowegian
It may amuse you, but there is a serious point there. conservonator has pointed out what he sees as an inconsistency in Protestant belief. Does the doctrine of sola scriptura measure up to your own standards of scriptural interpretation?

I’ve taken the liberty of placing the most salient point in bold. The doctrine of sola scriptura is so amorphous that there are no hard and fast standards. This doctrine, like Jell-O will conform to any container you want to pour it into. This most man-made of doctrines has allowed Christianity to devolve into thousands of sects and denominations each with distinct (though admittedly often trivial) differences.

This, rather fluid doctrine of the reformation has splintered the body of Christ into so many disparate beliefs that some sects claiming to be Christian will not even give a nod to the most basic of Christian creeds.

How does the "doctrine of Jell-O", (to paraphrase its lead architect) sola scriptura aid in bringing people to Christ? Was Christ’s plan a splintered and disjointed body, a map with many routes? If this "many paths to one Christ" theory of salvation is valid than these Christian vs. Christina threads are a waste of time at best and a horrible sin of pride at worst. If there is no "many roads to one Christ", than the doctrine of sola scriptura which provided the vehicle for this "diversity" of Christian thought is an abomination and should be abandoned.

sola scriptura appeals to human pride. Pride in ones ability to interpret scripture. Pride in knowing that the Holy Spirit surly must guide someone so devoted to the Holy Scripture. Pride is the ultimate stumbling block because it is pride that won’t let us admit that we are fallible, corrupt and even if guided by the holy Spirit at times easily stumble and revert back to sin. Christ knew our nature, He was one of us: flesh and blood, tempted, humiliated, loved and hated. He never fell, He was, and is, God. He knew we could not be as he is so he left us a Church, The Catholic Church to guide us least we swerve into error. By pride or ignorance we are sure to fall. Christ’s Grace can save us. There is a map that marks the way and the Church guards the map.

35 posted on 10/09/2001 8:47:06 PM PDT by conservonator
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To: conservonator
By pride or ignorance we are sure to fall.

Pride and ignorance are what have kept many, many generations of sheeple in the RC church. Tradition, you know.

36 posted on 10/09/2001 8:54:58 PM PDT by Iowegian
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To: JHavard
I like to point to these fundamental (no pun intended) differences to see if anyone besides Catholics (and our Greek friends) find it shocking.

My note was a reply to this statement by Soothing Dave.I did not reference you or call you any names.What statement did I make you disagreed with?

37 posted on 10/09/2001 8:59:46 PM PDT by Blessed
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To: angelo
Sorry to interrupt

In Mathew 15:3-6, is Jesus endorsing Exodus 21:17?

38 posted on 10/09/2001 9:00:50 PM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: Iowegian
As for the rest of the post, it's a retread of the usual Vatican PR dept. line: "We are the one true church and we are the only way to God and salvation". Now tell us all again about pride, please. And throw in how we are arrogant, just to make the irony complete. Thanks.
39 posted on 10/09/2001 9:02:02 PM PDT by Iowegian
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To: angelo
In what way do you think he could he have failed?
To live up to his own perfect standards.

So the universe when 33 or so years without a God?
I said he watched his alter self grow, as a man, and as he grew he became more and more as his God self, but don't forget, his Father was watching over things also.

Jesus was God reincarnated?
He came back as someone else? No, I guess he was his own son though.lol

Curiouser and curiouser. What would it mean to be a fraction (say, .375) of God?
We Christians start out even smaller than that as babes in Christ.Lol

40 posted on 10/09/2001 9:02:19 PM PDT by JHavard
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