Marines do it their own way

MSNBC ^ | 9/30/01 | Sue Lackey

[kattracks]

A different approach to special forces
A Marine awaits orders during urban war training exercises last week at Camp Pendleton, California.
By Sue Lackey MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR

Sept. 30 —  For the average Marine, it is both amusing and a bit galling to hear all the talk about “special forces” and their capabilities. For while the Army, Navy and Air Force have created Special Operations Commands with a unique structure, the Marine Corps has taken its basic forward deployed unit — the Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) — and trained every one in special operations tactics.

THE FAMED Delta Force is often celebrated as the nation’s most elite special operations team, but its position as a member of the the Army’s Joint Special Operations Command gives it a narrow focus restricted to counterterrorism and hostage rescue. In contrast, each MEU must be qualified in 18 separate mission areas, including counter terrorism. This broad focus in training and qualifications makes the Marine unit more versatile than any other service’s special operations forces.
       Gen. Alfred M. Gray, who served as Commandant of the Marine Corps in the early 1980s, helped create the Joint Special Operations Command. But while the command often requests Marines to flesh out its capability, the Corps is the only service which has refused to join the command at an organizational level. “It goes against the reason the Marine Corps was developed,” says a Marine officer who is a special operations specialist. “It would have forced the Corps to focus on one mission, when the nation needed an amphibious force for forcible entry, with much broader capabilities.”
       Under a recent reform of the system, traditional special operations forces forces are assigned to specific theater Commanders in Chief — for instance, the Commander in Chief, Europe or the Commander in Chief, Southern Command, which handles Latin America. East of these commands have units with specific specialties, and depend on that regional commander for support. MEU’s, however, an amphibious force that can be deployed at will to any theater. Their floating base of operations gives them the ability to sustain a mission longer than other special operations forces, which are traditionally used for short term insertions, or in the case of the Green Berets, specific insurgency training missions.
 

      The true strength of the MEUs lie in their ability to augment their forces with air and ground combat elements and combat service support. This means any given unit can call in tanks, amphibious assault vehicles, and fixed wing aircraft — all of which are part of standard MEU order of battle. Other special operations forces must rely on conventional service support when additional forces are needed.
       A perfect example of this versatility was in the 1983 Grenada invasion, where Army special forces were inserted to extract U.S. Embassy staff. The team was able to reach their target, but were then bottled up inside the embassy and unable to get out through enemy troops. The JSOC team then called for Marine support. An MEU which had been diverted to Grenada broke through with tanks and armored vehicles to extract their colleagues and the embassy personnel they had rescued.
       The way in which special operations training has been integrated into the basic structure of the Corps has changed the capabilities of the Corps as a whole. The other military services are large enough to allow their SF units to function in some degree of separation. Because the Marine Corps is so small in numbers, its SOC qualified personnel rotate on duty throughout the Corps, which has enhanced the overall quality of training and identification with special operations forces. Most of these men have now percolated to the top of the command structure. “It’s been in place so long now that a lot of the flag officers grew up with this-they’re Al Gray’s boys,” said one Marine special operations veteran. “That’s what you do not get in the other special forces, because they tend to stay in their own areas. When they do go into other units to further their careers, they have problems integrating within the conventional forces and its military bureaucracy. They don’t do well as staff officers; they want to go back to their unit.”
       That lack of experienced special forces officers at high levels to give special forces a voice allows other branches of the conventional forces to marginalize the effectiveness of special operations in budget battles and mission planning — a situation the Marine Corps has managed to avoid.

       

[ancient_geezer]

You gossip'n agin CHIEF?

Actually them Cigars are usually referred to as boats by us submariners. But I give a bit of leeway to you old jarines, as everyone knows us submariners "Doit Deeper and Better" but don't want to trigger the inferiority complexes of other parts of the Navy so we try to give yah abit of slack taking in account your sensitive natures.

[CHIEF negotiator]

sensitive MY (_|_)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)

I just wanna kill something and break things.

[JoeSixPack1]

i'll tell ya Chief,, whatever is left over I'll finish for ya.
Squids, wannabes, fly guys from the Army, guys comparing MY USMC to gods?,
I think killing something and breaking a buncha stuff is called for right about now.

[Slipjack]

81FO - Did you run accross D. Frost 56-81/82, he was laid to rest this summer!

[Snow Bunny]

[Snow Bunny]

"No Marine was ever honored for what they received. Honor was the reward for what they gave." (Anonymous)

Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld
Wednesday, September 12, 2001 - 3:25 p.m.

Q: Mr. Secretary, there are some in the Middle East who are saying that the United States does not have the belly to do the kind of response to this attack on the United States, that this administration, the previous administration don't have it to go after them in the kind of way that they have to be gone after. Without any specifics whatsoever, help us with the attitude that should go into this process.

Rumsfeld: Well, I guess time will tell. My -- I guess I'm kind of old-fashioned. I'm inclined to think that if you're going to cock it, you throw it, and you don't talk about it a lot.

[Snow Bunny]

Great Bush Quote ;

" When I take action I 'm not gfoing to fire a $2 Million missile at a $10 empty ten and hit a camel in the butt."

[ancient_geezer]

sensitive MY (_|_)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)
I just wanna kill something and break things.

i'll tell ya Chief,, whatever is left over I'll finish for ya.

QED ;0)

So sensitive! Kinda like nitroglycerine sitt'n in the sun donch'a think?

[COB1]

"taking in account your sensitive natures."

There ain't but two things that are sensitive on a Marine.
One of those is his trigger finger.

[COB1]

I know there must be lots of people who can't load this thread.
When y'all get ready for a new one, let me know.

[Justin Thyme]

"Real men don't let their women do their fighting for them. It is unnatural and immoral, PC and goofy.

Although I'm not really for it(yes, I did say that I didn't have any problems with it...but that is more on the theory level, than the practical application, due to reasons I mentioned), I have met some women Marines that would kick the a$$ of some particular male Marines. Additionally, although I agree with your general intent, I think your statement is definitedly skewed. The idea is NOT to have "women do their fighting for them", but allowing women who have the desire and qualifications to fight beside them, not instead.

"Men, as a general rule, don't get raped repeatedly when captured; women do."

Very true. And I believe my original post already mentioned that I agree that current mentalities have men predisposed to protect women, much moreso than another male. That type of bias or preferential treatment is part of what would have to change in society for women combatants to even be considered.

My real stance was that if a woman meets the exact same physical and psychological demands, and agrees and understands that there will be not type of preferential treatment in any way or form due to their sex, then perhaps they should be allowed to if they desire. Off hand, I don't see our society accepting it anytime soon, nor do I foresee many women agreeing to those terms, or meeting the requirements.

[CHIEF negotiator]

BEAUTIFUL! Thanks.

[COB1]

I don't think it's up to the women to decide.
I think it's up to the men to accept, and I don't think our fighting forces as a general rule can do that.
We're no different than any other animal in that the male protects the female because the female is the key to the propagation of the species.
Men are not going to be able to disregard millions of years of mental conditioning just to allow women the "right" to participate in combat on an equal basis.
Women who are demanding this right hold Israel up as their example of women who are the equal of men in combat, but it's just not true. The women are still protected as much as possible.

[CHIEF negotiator]

Show me a 130 lb BAM who can "deadman carry" a 260 lb Marine!

[68 grunt]

I'm gonna type real slow so that maybe you'll understand.

In combat units a bond is formed between brothers. You value your brother's life more than your own. This bond is very akin to love. You mix a split-tail in with these warriors and this bond, this love and dedication, will become confused and corrupted. Unnecessary chances would be taken to protect her. Her friends would be percieved as 'favored', resentment would develop, unit conhesion would suffer. Do you understand?

[68 grunt]

A 260 pound Marine? Maybe a 260 pound former Marine, but even obese Gunnys don't go that heavy.

Semper Fi

[JoeSixPack1]

Show me a 130 lb BAM who can "deadman carry" a 260 lb Marine!

I intended a lighthearted response to this statement, but in retrospect its just too dam serious a problem. Rule # is confidence in your team. If its not there, your not combat ready.

[JoeSixPack1]

A 260 pound Marine? Maybe a 260 pound former Marine, but even obese Gunnys don't go that heavy.

being 258lbs, if a 130lb BAM can firemen carry me I'll have an extra 2 lbs before its over.. :-)

[MudPuppy]

being a former Marine and a female....I agree that women don't belong in combat units for the reasons you stated in #375.

Semper Fi!

[68 grunt]

Thanks you, ma'am. I salute your service.

Semper Fi