Marines do it their own way

MSNBC ^ | 9/30/01 | Sue Lackey

[kattracks]

A different approach to special forces
A Marine awaits orders during urban war training exercises last week at Camp Pendleton, California.
By Sue Lackey MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR

Sept. 30 —  For the average Marine, it is both amusing and a bit galling to hear all the talk about “special forces” and their capabilities. For while the Army, Navy and Air Force have created Special Operations Commands with a unique structure, the Marine Corps has taken its basic forward deployed unit — the Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) — and trained every one in special operations tactics.

THE FAMED Delta Force is often celebrated as the nation’s most elite special operations team, but its position as a member of the the Army’s Joint Special Operations Command gives it a narrow focus restricted to counterterrorism and hostage rescue. In contrast, each MEU must be qualified in 18 separate mission areas, including counter terrorism. This broad focus in training and qualifications makes the Marine unit more versatile than any other service’s special operations forces.
       Gen. Alfred M. Gray, who served as Commandant of the Marine Corps in the early 1980s, helped create the Joint Special Operations Command. But while the command often requests Marines to flesh out its capability, the Corps is the only service which has refused to join the command at an organizational level. “It goes against the reason the Marine Corps was developed,” says a Marine officer who is a special operations specialist. “It would have forced the Corps to focus on one mission, when the nation needed an amphibious force for forcible entry, with much broader capabilities.”
       Under a recent reform of the system, traditional special operations forces forces are assigned to specific theater Commanders in Chief — for instance, the Commander in Chief, Europe or the Commander in Chief, Southern Command, which handles Latin America. East of these commands have units with specific specialties, and depend on that regional commander for support. MEU’s, however, an amphibious force that can be deployed at will to any theater. Their floating base of operations gives them the ability to sustain a mission longer than other special operations forces, which are traditionally used for short term insertions, or in the case of the Green Berets, specific insurgency training missions.
 

      The true strength of the MEUs lie in their ability to augment their forces with air and ground combat elements and combat service support. This means any given unit can call in tanks, amphibious assault vehicles, and fixed wing aircraft — all of which are part of standard MEU order of battle. Other special operations forces must rely on conventional service support when additional forces are needed.
       A perfect example of this versatility was in the 1983 Grenada invasion, where Army special forces were inserted to extract U.S. Embassy staff. The team was able to reach their target, but were then bottled up inside the embassy and unable to get out through enemy troops. The JSOC team then called for Marine support. An MEU which had been diverted to Grenada broke through with tanks and armored vehicles to extract their colleagues and the embassy personnel they had rescued.
       The way in which special operations training has been integrated into the basic structure of the Corps has changed the capabilities of the Corps as a whole. The other military services are large enough to allow their SF units to function in some degree of separation. Because the Marine Corps is so small in numbers, its SOC qualified personnel rotate on duty throughout the Corps, which has enhanced the overall quality of training and identification with special operations forces. Most of these men have now percolated to the top of the command structure. “It’s been in place so long now that a lot of the flag officers grew up with this-they’re Al Gray’s boys,” said one Marine special operations veteran. “That’s what you do not get in the other special forces, because they tend to stay in their own areas. When they do go into other units to further their careers, they have problems integrating within the conventional forces and its military bureaucracy. They don’t do well as staff officers; they want to go back to their unit.”
       That lack of experienced special forces officers at high levels to give special forces a voice allows other branches of the conventional forces to marginalize the effectiveness of special operations in budget battles and mission planning — a situation the Marine Corps has managed to avoid.

       

[COB1]

The DOD can take a flying leap at a doughnut hole!
You can call me a Jarhead all you want as long as you capitalize that "J", same as the "G" in Gyrene and the "L" in Leatherneck and the "D" in Devil Dogs and the "M" in Marine.

[Coop]

Yut!

[SuperLuminal]

"It's long past time that America knows that one branch of the military didn't succumb to that Commie Clinton and his gang of fellow lefties...."

You are reprimanding one that gang's supporters.

Semper Fi!

[LadyX]

"That ain't nuttin'. I was at Tun Tavern in 1775 . . . Now that's the old corps. :-)"

CHIEF tell Heap Big Tale at PowWow....
Not let go of 'Talking Feather!'

As for you, Tonkin, that was the very shy young lady of yore...things they have changed!
Reminder to Self: Put the West Coast on my Itinerary...:)))

[JoeSixPack1]

Hey --- control yourself, do you relize the danger you are putting yourself in?? :-)
That JAR you are referring to is also known as a can of USMC WHIPASS, you don't want to open one up!

[JoeSixPack1]

Well, I was an 0151, but got popped and sent to a jump unit .... do you know what its like to get thrown out of a prefectly good aircraft with a typewriter straped to your butt, a .45 shoved down your trousers and really really gung ho guys screamin OOOOOOOHHHHH RAAAHH Marine Corps as they Jump?????(Answer=Yes, so they kick you till your not standing on anything anymore and the wind crushes your last cigar immediately followed by your last meal) :-(

[CHIEF negotiator]

USMC

THE PRESIDENT'S OWN

[JoeSixPack1]

Oh man,, that is without a doubt a "Keeper" Thanks Chief!!! gotta copy and send that to some old wardog buddies of mine!

[COB1]

Yup!
Goes in my file, too!
Thanks, CHIEF!

[Justin Thyme]

What do you think of the impact of the "politically correct" sexually integrated armed forces? I know that even the USMC hasn't been immune from that.

I may not have a common view on this. Overall, I'm not opposed to a COMPLETE equality amongst all, regardless of race, sex, religion, etc. That's the full equal pay for equal work. Where I think it breaks down is that there is generally NOT an equality. Females have different physical fitness requirements. If a woman takes the same physical fitness test, does all the same exact training, and lugs the same weight pack for a forced march, then I have no problem with her being a rifleman.

The other problem, is our culture says we need to be nice to women, open doors for them, do the heavy work for them, protect them. It's this conflict between the two that really creates the problem, IMO. I even think that the majority of feminist activists want it both ways....they want the equal pay for equal work (which it should always be...especially in the corporate world, where there is some level of equal work!!!), but they also still want to be placed on a pedistal to some extent.

At least in terms of the combat arms (infantry, armor, artillery, etc), getting women into the front line troops will be very difficult.

[jo6pac]

Real men don't let their women do their fighting for them. It is unnatural and immoral, PC and goofy.

[A Navy Vet]

You call that a ship? If ain't got 70 fixed wing sittin on top, it's just sub food.

[A Navy Vet]

"Then I was sent to get some "water line" from one of the Chief's. LOL"

HAHA! Mine was the *relative bearing grease*.

[COB1]

You named two problems, Justin, but I propose that there is a third that is even more important than those two.
Men, as a general rule, don't get raped repeatedly when captured; women do.
A squad or platoon or company is no different in psychological make-up toward their women than a troop of chimpanzees. They will protect their women and throw caution to the winds when one of their women is being held captive and raped by the enemy. It's an affront to the masculinity.
The enemy could use this very effectively.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"And that's the reason the Jarheads walked out of the bars with all the wimmen!
While the swabs were being polite, the Marines were taking charge!"

You mean you were supposed to leave the bar first?, LOL
When you pull into port after 15-30 days at sea and then know
you are leaving again in 3 days and you only get one 12 hour liberty
in those 3 days, who had time to actually leave the bar. LOL
PS Only 1/3 of ship on liberty at a time overseas

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

A retired Navy Chief and a retired Marine Corps Gunnery Sergeant
were sitting at the stag bar arguing about which had the tougher career.
"I did 30 years in the Corps," the Gunny declared proudly, "and fought in three of my country's wars. Fresh out of boot camp I hit the beach at Iwo Jima, clawed my way up the blood-soaked sand, and eventually took out two enemy machine gun positions with grenades. I was wounded and evacuated to the States where I spent 7 months in the hospital."
"As a sergeant, I fought in Korea with Chesty Puller at the Chosin Reservoir. I made the long march to Hung Nam and later landed at Inchon. I spent two years in combat under constant enemy fire. I was wounded again and awarded a Bronze Star for saving my Company Commander."
"Finally, as a gunnery sergeant I had two back-to-back combat tours in Vietnam with the Infantry. I humped through the mud and razorgrass for up to 14 hours a day, plagued by rain and mosquitoes, dodging sniper fire all day and mortar fire all night. I was involved in more firefights than I can count where we fired until our ammunition was gone and then charged the enemy with bayonets. When I retired from the Corps I was awarded 80% disability by the Veterans Administration."
Looking straight ahead the Chief said nothing.
Then, after a deliberately long, slow drink, he retorted "It figures...all shore duty!"

[harpseal]

This old sailor has the highest respect for all Marines. I also have the highest respect for all Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard.

The rivalry that exists is or should be good natured. The only bad thing I will ever say about Marines is that the food they used to serve to Marines was not palatable. In support of this contention I note I have never ever seen a Marine turn down an invitation to a Navy mess. I hope my comments on the food are outdated and they have the best now.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

[COB1]

'"It figures...all shore duty!" '

HAHAHAHA!!
Good one, Tonkin!

Actually you were right about not leaving the bar, too.
Down on PatPong (sp?) in Bangkok, that was the norm!

[COB1]

"The only bad thing I will ever say about Marines is that the food they used to serve to Marines was not palatable."

Palatable??
Heck, most of it was not edible unless you were starving, which we usually were.
If I had had a choice I'd have rather gone through the mess at the Salvation Army soup kitchen!
The main dish was usually SOS that could be thrown like a baseball and never drip a drop.

[Prodigal Daughter]

BUMP.

Marine's Prayer