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Evolution: A Series on PBS tonight
PBS ^ | Sept. 24, 2001 | PBS

Posted on 09/24/2001 1:12:24 PM PDT by ThinkPlease

Tonight is the beginning of the Evolution Series on PBS. I thought I'd open up some threads of discussion here prior, during and after the telecast of the episodes.

Here's PBS's homepage for the telecast:

PBS Homepage

And Here's something from the Discovery Institute, who is evidently irritated about turning down free publicity on the telecast. (They were offered time on the final night of the telecast, and turned down PBS.)

Discovery Institute


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Philosophy
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To: GLDNGUN
Thanks Jenny but all I found was a lot of psuedo-science babble about why there aren't transitional fossils. Oh, they say there are but offer no specifics because any "example" they produced could easily be discredited. Just take a look around; if evolution were true there should be all kinds of transitional species between humans and apes or where ever we supposedly came from. There are none. That is just ONE example. Of course there should be all kinds of transitional species all over the place. The earth should be crawling with them. In fact, there should be no species, just zillions of transitional creatures. I am so thankful for intelligent design. Why do some people hang on so fiercely to a theory that is an absolute joke? The more you think about it, the more absurd and and laughable evolution gets.

And the laugh is on you. Every member of every species is different. Everyone is indeed transitional, and at the level you think. Obviously, some mutations are self selected (via crib-death, spontaneous abortions, and the hordes of other things that cause children to be born deformed or dead). Despite some peoples protestations, evolution is still occurring as we speak. Here are some papers that show that somethings have indeed evolved on very short timescales.

Speciation-Faq1

Speciation-Faq2

As far as I know, these contain references that have not been refuted by any intelligent designer, or creationist. Each opposing theory has to show that they've described the evidence better than evolution to be considered. I don't believe they've ever done that.

121 posted on 09/25/2001 4:18:07 PM PDT by ThinkPlease
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To: GLDNGUN
Of course there should be all kinds of transitional species all over the place. The earth should be crawling with them.

Why?

122 posted on 09/25/2001 4:22:27 PM PDT by BMCDA
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To: VadeRetro
#117: "So you're under no pressure to employ reason because all these alleged "thinkers" are really just "believers" and not a jot ahead of you in real knowledge anyway . . "

It's not wise to employ reason / logic when dealing with emotionally immature / emotion-driven mentalities; they find it impossible to engage in critical thought because they instinctively know, and FEAR where it leads.

By the way .... cognitive dissonance is the mental confusion / psychological conflict that results from holding exact opposite (incongruous) beliefs and attitudes simultaneously. (See my previous posts on this thread). Hahahaha

123 posted on 09/25/2001 4:40:12 PM PDT by Matchett-PI (The wise never get in a boat with a one-armed boat rower.)
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To: ThinkPlease
A discussion of speciation requires a definition of what constitutes a species

Here we go again. Every time I bother to read one of these links, these scientists want to redefine the words involved. Last time it was "theory". A species is a species is a species, same thing with theory, and it doesn't matter what "is" is! Liberal doublespeak at it's best!
124 posted on 09/25/2001 5:33:59 PM PDT by dubyagee
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To: Matchett-PI
(See my previous posts on this thread). Hahahaha

Sounds like you're getting too emotional. Your previous post, if you mean number 74, basically justifies ignoring the amazing preponderance of evidence for evolution on the grounds that its all experience and thus perception and thus unreliable and thus we really don't know anything so maybe we really were made in 6 days 6K years ago . . .

I can't get excited about the "real science" because it has nothing to teach us except that we know nothing. That's not the girl we came to the dance of the 21st century with.

125 posted on 09/25/2001 6:42:32 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Matchett-PI
A few of them glanced at it, said they read it, and responded by saying basically "Nah nah na-nah nah."

A few more words than that, no more substance.

Dan

126 posted on 09/25/2001 6:55:23 PM PDT by BibChr
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To: dubyagee
Here we go again. Every time I bother to read one of these links, these scientists want to redefine the words involved. Last time it was "theory". A species is a species is a species, same thing with theory, and it doesn't matter what "is" is! Liberal doublespeak at it's best!

It is important in science to be precise, so that everyone knows exactly what you are trying to say in your scientific paper. Therefore, you'd best make sure people understand what you mean when you state something.

In this case, it is a direct challenge to certain creationists who throw around the word "kind" like it was candy in their work, when they still don't have a straight definition for it.

127 posted on 09/25/2001 7:11:34 PM PDT by ThinkPlease
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To: ThinkPlease
"Three species of wildflowers called goatsbeards were introduced to the United States from Europe shortly after the turn of the century. Within a few decades their populations expanded and began to encounter one another in the American West. Whenever mixed populations occurred, the specied interbred (hybridizing) producing sterile hybrid offspring. Suddenly, in the late forties two new species of goatsbeard appeared near Pullman, Washington. Although the new species were similar in appearance to the hybrids, they produced fertile offspring. The evolutionary process had created a separate species that could reproduce but not mate with the goatsbeard plants from which it had evolved."

This is not proof of anything, it's still a flower. When it morphs into a cactus, then they might have something.
128 posted on 09/25/2001 7:19:54 PM PDT by dubyagee
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To: ThinkPlease
Let's see if the evolutionists on these threads learn anything from this series. Perhaps they will be able to come up with some proofs for their positions for a change.
129 posted on 09/25/2001 7:49:41 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: VadeRetro, jennyp, PatrickHenry, ThinkPlease, RadioAstronomer
Second half of episode #2 went off track with all the global warming/man-is-causing-extinctions hysteria. I suppose it was required in order to get the commies at PBS to agree to run the series.

I also think the scientists are missing the big picture if they think that ecosystems should exist in some sort of stasis; the big message of evolution is, given enough time, virtually all ecosystems are dynamic, and will become disturbed (whether by natural or man-made reasons) and some species will go extinct as a result. In short, given enough time, all things change.

They also fail to even mention the fact that it is extinctions of species that open the door for critters to exploit the now vacated eco-niches of the extinct species, and for new species to begin to radiate therefrom.

But, I'm no bio-nerd, so maybe I missed something.

130 posted on 09/25/2001 7:52:21 PM PDT by longshadow
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To: jennyp
Gee nothing but an attack on religion, no facts at all. It does not even say what the theory of evolution is (like the evolutionist here).
131 posted on 09/25/2001 7:55:08 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: jennyp
that the creator of (us as human beings at least) was a purely natural process.

Utter nonsense. The only way you can get away with getting rid of God in nature is to prove abiogenesis - that life arose from inate matter. Evolutionists (and atheists and materialists) do not even have a single plausible explanation to how it could have occurred let alone any scientific proof of it. Your belief in materialistic evolution is based purely on a faith which fights mighty hard against the scientific facts.

132 posted on 09/25/2001 7:59:20 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: NonZeroSum
you're comparing two different belief systems--one that relies on the scientific method

Evolution is not science. It is pseudo science. It is an ideology. Science has theorems and gives proof of them. Evolution has neither a theory nor proof of it.

133 posted on 09/25/2001 8:02:20 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: blue jeans
And that isn't because of evolution, but rather because God has written his law on our hearts.

Interesting point. If you want to drive an evolutionist nuts just ask him who wrote those natural laws that they believe in so much, who enforces those laws.

134 posted on 09/25/2001 8:04:58 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: NonZeroSum
No, one shouldn't, unless one is totally ignorant of statistics and the nature of genetic mutations.

You now have the golden opportunity to put your numbers where your opinion is.

135 posted on 09/25/2001 8:05:08 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: Storm Orphan
"I suggest you look up the definition of the words "species" and "individual" and apply them here.

Wrong. Creationists say that when you take God out of the life equation you end up with barbarism and Darwin himself gave proof of that. The useless are to be disposed of, not helped. He was a believer in eugenics just as his theory clearly points to.

136 posted on 09/25/2001 8:08:34 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: GLDNGUN
Great post!
137 posted on 09/25/2001 8:10:44 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: NonZeroSum
Can't you even come up with something original?

His paragraph on sandcastles was very instructive. If it is as hackneyed as you say, then perhaps you should find a refutation of it quite easily. It is the basis of the theory of intelligent design and it has roots that go back even further than Darwin. It has not been refuted and you will not be refuting it either, that is why you resort to the lame Clintonian excuse "it is yesterday's news".

138 posted on 09/25/2001 8:17:31 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: GLDNGUN
Do you think sand castles are created by 'natural selection'? ;-)

Of course not! Every evolutionist knows that sandcastles are created by a million monkeys on typewriters!

139 posted on 09/25/2001 8:19:50 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: longshadow
Your post in toto

Yep, I'm glad to know I am part of a "weed" species. They did cover the extinction/production cycle, however it is evil if people cause the extinction. They did note that 95% of all species are fossils only. I'm pondering the average 4,000,000 year species life-time(I think I heard that number). We need to exterminate the coelecanth, it's skewing the curve.

140 posted on 09/25/2001 8:19:52 PM PDT by AndrewC
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