Posted on 09/19/2001 8:34:09 PM PDT by Antoninus
An insidious, monstrous criminal atrocity has been committed against our country. There's now little doubt that this barbaric act was committed by fanatical Muslims as part of a jihad against the 'Great Satan' America. In the aftermath, we are treated to platitudinous and largely unnecessary calls for Americans to exercise 'restraint' and not take out our anger against other Americans who happen to be of the same religious extraction as the maniacs who perpetrated this act. These calls for restraint could be made unnecessary if American Muslims would simply do the following...
Convene a very public, nationally televised 'town hall' meeting of Muslim clerics and high-ranking officials with in their communities around the country. Within this public forum, allow presenter after presenter to state unequivocably that they:
1. Decry the dastardly attack on the World Trade Centers in no uncertain terms.
2. Declare to be false and pernicious the notion that a murderous, suicidal death leads one's soul to heaven. State in no uncertain terms that this teaching is contrary to true Islam.
3. Renounce the use of terroist violence to achieve political ends, and call for ALL foreign governments to do the same.
4. State publicly that they support the right of the United States to wage war against those nations and groups which harbor and abet terrorism whether they be Muslim or otherwise.
5. Put forth a dire warning to the terrorist cells that may be in their midst that Muslim-Americans will not think twice about turning these perfidious scoundrels over to the US government.
6. Mention that any public celebration of these attacks by Muslim-Americans is a deplorable act which harms not only the Muslim community, but America as a whole.
What I don't want to hear in relation to this is one single word about:
1. How this would never have happened if the US didn't support Israel.
2. How our 'imperialist' oppression of Arab nations brought on this attack.
3. Any kind of justification for terrorist barbarism.
Individual statements along these lines have surfaced here and there, but until the Muslim community as a whole does this in a very public fashion, I will have to view them with some suspicion. The mere fact that we haven't seen more of these kinds of statements indicates to me (and I hope I'm wrong on this) that there is decent amount of clandestine approval of the attack within the Muslim-American community...
Another result is that every government in the Middle East is riddled with crypto-shi'ah, posing for generations as sunnis, according to a brother who is from that region and well-travelled. That means that not only the Israeli intelligence that the United States receives, but also the intelligence that the United States receives from every government over there has to be checked over with extreme care before it goes into analyses presented to our decision-makers. But it isn't always handled that way.
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The doctrine, as presented by the shi'ah, is a distortion, not a Qur'anic injunction in the slightest.
You are more of a doctrinal expert on this subject than I am. Could you please explain the following references from the Quran and authoritative commentary:
Reference 1:
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"Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti in his book, "al-Durr al-Manthoor Fi al-Tafsir al- Ma'athoor," narrates Ibn Abbas', the MOST renowned and trusted narrator of tradition in the sight of the Sunnis, opinion regarding al-Taqiyya in the Quranic verse: "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, (they) shall have no relation left with Allah except by way of precaution ("tat-taqooh"), that ye may guard yourselves ("tooqatan") from them....[3:28]"
that Ibn Abbas said:
"al-Taqiyya is with the tongue only; he who has been COERCED into saying that which angers Allah (SWT), and his heart is comfortable (i.e., his TRUE faith has NOT been shaken.), then (saying that which he has been coerced to say) will NOT harm him (at all); (because) al- Taqiyya is with the tongue only, (NOT the heart)."
NOTE: The two words "tat-taqooh" and "tooqatan," as mentioned in the Arabic Quran, are BOTH from the same root of "al-Taqiyya."
NOTE ALSO: The "heart" as referred to above and in later occurrences refers to the center of faith in an individual's existence. It is mentioned many times in the Quran."
Reference 2:
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"Ibn Abbas also commented on the above verse, as narrated in Sunan al- Bayhaqi and Mustadrak al-Hakim, by saying:
"al-Taqiyya is the uttering of the tongue, while the heart is comfortable with faith."
NOTE: The meaning is that the tongue is permitted to utter anything in a time of need, as long as the heart is not affected; and one is still comfortable with faith."
(permission to utter "anything" in "a time of need" looks to me at least like a loophole big enough to drive a truck through)
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Now let's discuss Paul's exhortations that lying is an acceptable way to spread Christianity. Or do you plan to deny those, as well? And should you admit them, since they're so plainly and indelibly in the New Testament, then when you say that you don't follow them, or that they apply to spreading the Gospel and not to the political colonialization that has always accompanied that spread, should we believe you?
That is the first time in my entire life that I have heard of "Paul's exhortations that lying is an acceptable way to spread Christianity". References, please?
(Btw, I hope you include America herself in your true phrase "the political colonialization that has always accompanied that spread":^)
Cordially,
This could be good or it could be bad. The only thing I know for certainty is that the Mossad has the balls to do it. Unlike our p***y whipped secret (ha ha) services.
... for emphasis ...
America ... love it or leave it.
Please go back and re-read my post. Believe me you and I are on the same page. I also despise the hyphenated labels. My last name is probably Scottish in origin. Call me a Scot-American, or European-American, and we will have a problem.
I have no idea when the first of my ancestors arrived here, but there was some whispered talk that one of my grandmothers had a little Cherokee in her. You want to call me something, call me an American. If you must further subdivide, call me a caucasian (that is scientifically accurate)....just don't call me late for dinner :-).
Regards
J.R.
I am a Muslim American, and you guys want me to stand entirely with the government to kill innocent Muslims, with my knowing that Muslims are no where behind the attacks? Never. I thank God I'm not as brainwashed as you are. I don't care about what you like to believe, but if you put yourselves in my shoes, perhaps you would look at things with a more critical eye. No evidence revealed is yet enough for me to stand against my fellow innocent Muslims in Afghanistan. Our objectiveness as an American nation brought us to an advanced position among the nations of the world, and I'm just practicing that objectiveness. You are destroying it, and you're taking us all down with you.
*I* spent the day of the attacks not being able to get my head together. *I* spent sleepless nights afterwards, not because of fear, not because of the discrimination against me that was to come, but because I was terrified. I could as well have been there in Manhattan. The next attack could very much kill me. You are making the real killers feel so good when they read your posts. That terrifies me more. But whatever I say or do cannot bring you out of your brain shower. I'm not supposed to follow what you say and think that *you* are the one who gives me freedom. I'm as free here as I can be anywhere. *I* am the one who determines when and what to say or do, not you, not the government, and not Rednecks.
Bush said that we are a great contribution to the society. We damn sure are. I am a dentist, working at a hospital. My brother is a pediatrician, treating all colors of babies, and my other brother is a chemical engineer, designing towers for industrial plants in this country. If we leave, you're the only losers because I will still be a dentist, and you will lose me to another country.
Moreover, you want Muslims to denounce Usama Bin Laden personally. When I hear him say THREE TIMES that he did not have anything to do with the attacks, I believe him, just like you should. Think about it. This single fact is more than enough for me to exclude him as a perpetrator or a mastermind. I will not explain how, because I need not to. And even if you heard my explanation, you will go on with your racism because you just can't leave the mainstream of fish is the brainwashing river.
And since your majesty ordered me "not to" say the things you were "sick of hearing", I want NO hate replies to this post. I've had my share already.
Abdul Hameed
Boom. His fate is sealed. Die or live like the stinking dog that he is.
How could you have had your share already on 2 October ? You only made 2 post yesterday. Today, on another thread you said that you're a Palestian. Did you forget that you had posted on this thread that you're an American ? If you are a naturalized American citizen you took an oath to disavow any allegiance to your former homeland. If you are an American born citizen then how can you be a Palestian ?
They fought against white Christians though, which is basically what Japan was fighting against, not a valid comparison in my opinion. FWIW
I know that Muslims are not behind it, so you can imagine how I feel towards you, and all the current argument means utter nothing to me . . . I am a Muslim American, and you guys want me to stand entirely with the government to kill innocent Muslims, with my knowing that Muslims are no where behind the attacks?
Your arguments mean less than nothing to us. You admit you are with the terrorists, knowing that is not a very bright thing to say in this climate. But no one every made a good case for Muslims being that bright. But we all know that those who think like you are evil.
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