Question for Church History Buffs (Vanity)

Vanity | 09/17/01 | self

[JenB]

To all you religion/church history buffs out there: I need your help! I'm writing a paper for a *very* liberal college professor on the Reformation, and I need lots of very good, very reliable sources, preferably offline.

In particular I'd like information or book suggestions regarding how the Crusades influenced the Reformation, and what if any effect the Black Death had on same. Also, I remember reading some time ago about early (600 AD?) conflict between the British Celtic church and the Roman church; any knowledge you guys have on that would be great.

[Publius]

When "Gnosis" went out of business, I was saddened. It was one of the best magazines I had ever encountered.

[Dumb_Ox]

I quite enjoyed Belloc's short history on the oriental Crusades, though he approached the topic from the standpoint of military strategy. The one crusade that may have set the precedent for policy during the Reformation was the war against the Albigensian Cathars, a small manichean sect in Languedoc, presently southern France. Protestants of all stripes were alleged to really be manichees, particularly because of their denial of previous Christian teaching on the Eucharist. In addition, the Cathars practiced ritual suicide. I believe an Inquisition was founded to root them out, as well.

[homskuledad]

Try R.J. Rushdooney. He is a Christian historian that I think you find to be very interesting. Good Luck!!!

[homskuledad]

Try R.J. Rushdooney. He is a Christian historian that I think you will find to be very interesting. Good Luck!!!

[Steve_Seattle]

The Crusades and their aftermath resulted in an eventual "Islamicization" of Chrisianity in Protestantism. Much of this came through the influence of the Sufis, who also probably had a role in the formation of Freemasonry. By "Islamicization," I mean trends such as elimination of the veneration of Mary and the saints, decentralization of religious authority, reliance on personal interpretation of religious scripture, de-emphasis or elimination of the priesthood and the sacraments, the rejection of monasticism, and - in some quarters - the prohibition of alcohol. The Islamicization of Christianity continues to this day as Christian scholars increasingly tend to deny the divinity of Jesus as traditionally understood.

[Paraclete]

http://www.ccel.org/index/history.html

[BrainiusMaximus]

If you go to Amazon.com, look for books written by Robert B. Ekelund. He has a good grasp of some of the history of the Catholic Church.

[troublesome creek]

yet another helpful reply

[Steve_Seattle]

"When 'Gnosis' went out of business I was saddened."

Me too. There isn't anything else like it. I'm surprised to find another "Gnosis" reader at FR.

[HEFFERNAN2]

"ligten up" maybe you are looking for salon.com...we are in the middle of a war...if someone is looking for sources do what all of us before have done...GO TO THE LIBRARY...thats the big building with all the ivy on the wall...and read a book..."lighten up" This is not MTV.

[good1]

There is a very nice section in Phillip Schaff's History of the Christian Church Volume V.

Also, there is an excellent article in The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Volume III, pp 315-18. This article also has an excellent bibliography for further study.

And finally, as always, Britannica has a good article on the Black Death, which includes a short discussion on its effects.

[Pelayo]

To all you religion/church history buffs out there: I need your help! I'm writing a paper for a *very* liberal college professor on the Reformation, and I need lots of very good, very reliable sources, preferably offline.

Ludwig von Pastor, History of the Popes,VII-XIX, Janssen, History of the German PeopleI-X(far too much neglected by modern scholarship), and Fife, Revolt of Martin Luther. To much probably:)

In particular I'd like information or book suggestions regarding how the Crusades influenced the Reformation, and what if any effect the Black Death had on same.

Well right off the top of my head I would say the Black Death did. The decline in the numbers and quality of clergy and religios help fed the instability of Christendom. The clergy suffered a higher mortality than the laity, apprroaching or exceeding 50%, they died while serveing their dying fellow Christians despite the danger. The ones who lived were not always the best of men. The Church didn't get back up to speed until after the Reformation. For Books I say: Gottfried, Black Death

Also, I remember reading some time ago about early (600 AD?) conflict between the British Celtic church and the Roman church; any knowledge you guys have on that would be great.

\ Actually it was more like 800/900 AD. The British church had been isolated from Rome and had developed some heretical traits. Good old Alfred the Great fixed it though. More than any other man he built Catholic England.

The Irish church had problems too, they didn't get fixed until later tho, around 1000-1100 AD I think.

[Ward Smythe]

we are in the middle of a war

I am, of course, well aware of that. But I just don't think it's out of line for another Freeper to ask for references.

So, since we disagree on that - and agree that there are more important issues - I'll butt out. (I will not, nor have I ever to the best of my memory, go to Salon.com)

[HEFFERNAN2]

I don't need you or anybody else telling me what to do. I was walking point probably before you were born and put more bodies in bags then probably anybody on this sight. So keep your bonehead remarks to yourself and do something constructive like enlist. Semper Fi, Mike

[troublesome creek]

don't let einstein run you off.

[Taliesan]

Try The Waning of the Middle Ages , by Huizinga.

Norman Cantor is good, as someone mentioned, and if you can find anything by Christopher Dawson on the era latch on to it.

Don't restrict yourself to "church" histories: try the Durant series, etc.

[Romulus]

I'd love to help out, but HEFFERNAN2 might not like it. He's a real stickler for ethics in academia, you know.

[Ward Smythe]

don't let einstein run you off.

I'm not going anywhere. But some things just aren't worth fighting over...

[troublesome creek]

understand.