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Extra bonus for Freepers: God waited until W was settled in office before allowing this. Just think if Clinton were President....
1 posted on 09/15/2001 12:11:44 PM PDT by Hebrews 11:6
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To: Hebrews 11:6
There's more bunkum here than I wish to shoot at. Let me just suggest to anyone who reads this that Revelation says specifically two things about the "Babylon" mentioned here. One is that it is "on seven hills." Another is that it represented the city in John's day "that rules over the nations of the earth."

Clearly it was talking of secular Rome.

However, let everyone read and make up his/her own mind.

51 posted on 09/15/2001 1:17:37 PM PDT by xzins
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To: Hebrews 11:6, 2sheep, Truebeliever9
It's best just to post the chapter and people can discover the parallels for themselves. Most won't. God promised to bring down the high places. Using our enemies, he did. There was nothing more literal and symbolic than the WTC towers being turned into ash and dust.

I had trouble grasping the magnitude and scale of these buildings, until I remembered the view of the airport from the Rock of Gibraltar. Looking down, the planes seem like small toys. Yet I still underestimated the height of the WTC towers. It turns out, that the towers were almost as high as the Rock itself (1360+ ft. vs. 1380 ft).


52 posted on 09/15/2001 1:21:39 PM PDT by Thinkin' Gal
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To: Hebrews 11:6
Sorry, I disagree. Babylon generally is in reference to...you guessed it..BABYLON! Iran, specifically Bhagdah sits there and Saddam has been trying to rebuild BABYLON!

the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. (could very well mean OIL, not to mention other items like gold and ivory.

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, (fine linen?, silk? ivory?, we don't export much of these)

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. (frankincense, oil [some bibles say OLIVE OIL]. We don't export much of that either!)

I think it is judt the opposite of what you post. Then moving on:

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. (G-d is calling the decent souls to leave before we retaliate, jmo)

6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. (Rather obvious, pay her back in spades)

As for the seaport....There is the Red Sea, Persian gulf and Mediterranean Sea. The boundaries of Iraq were probably much larger than they are now, I'll see if I can find a map more pertinent to the times. But there were many seaports in that area.

53 posted on 09/15/2001 1:33:08 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: Hebrews 11:6
Your nuts! If Revelations is true phrophecy at all, its predictions were for the first century Jews, not 21st century Americans.

Those who look for predictions in Revelations are just as dim witted as those who seek such knowledge from the quatrains of Nostradamus or the Mayan Calendar.

Revelations is a story meant to convey a spiritual message. It's not a step by step prediction of historical fact.

Babylon was first century Rome, not New York City.

61 posted on 09/15/2001 2:15:50 PM PDT by Dave S
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To: Hebrews 11:6
This kind of outrageous stuff makes people scoff at the things of God and the Bible.
Stick with Spiderman comics until you learn proper hermeneutics.
62 posted on 09/15/2001 2:20:34 PM PDT by WalterSkinner
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To: Hebrews 11:6
I've never seen any reference in the bible to the WTC or the pentagon.
64 posted on 09/15/2001 2:24:08 PM PDT by alaskanfan
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To: Hebrews 11:6
Extra bonus for Freepers: God waited until W was settled in office before allowing this. Just think if Clinton were President....

I'm even afraid to contemplate how bad it would be if Clinton was Pres.

65 posted on 09/15/2001 2:32:59 PM PDT by DreamWeaver
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To: Hebrews 11:6
7 Seals, 7 Trumpets, 7 Plagues, and 7 Bowls

Could I order those in a sandstone to match the kitchen?

67 posted on 09/15/2001 2:41:36 PM PDT by Tex-Con-Man
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To: Hebrews 11:6, Thinkin' Gal,Jeremiah Jr,babylonian,Zadokite,RnMomof7,TrueBeliever9,Prodigal Daughter
>>>4. WHAT IT ALL MEANS
The 28 judgments described in Revelation 6-16 have a specific purpose: to warn people that this is their last chance to turn to God before the end. Many will finally do so.

You are right, of course, but most [polus] will not repent because they are tightening their seatbelt for the ride down the broad way to destruction, having believed the lies of the false prophets and Nicolaitan overlords.  So many refuse to hear and have been given over to believe a lie.  So many say they are Christians but are really Secular Humanists rejecting every sign the Lord has sent and tearing out every piece of truth from their Bibles that they choose not to agree with.  They have departed the faith in Unbelief and think they are under Grace...but doeth ought presumptuously, a sin unto death. (Num 15:30)

Good article at the top...a real pearl.

69 posted on 09/15/2001 3:01:59 PM PDT by 2sheep
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To: Hebrews 11:6
Sorry, Babylon IS NOT THE UNITED STATES - Babylon is Iran (and all the other muslim nations). But if Babylon is going to be crushed (according to the Book of Revelation) - that is a wonderful prophecy that the United States will be very successful in their campaign to rid the world of terrorism.
70 posted on 09/15/2001 3:14:23 PM PDT by Sueann
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To: Hebrews 11:6
There are four distinct views as to how the book of Revelations can be interpreted as prophecy:
1) The Preterists view: This view is exclusivly in terms of it's first century(of the church)setting, and claims that most of its prophecies have already taken place.
2) The Historicist view: It describes a long chain of events from Patmos to the end of history.
3) The Futurists view: Most everything is to happen in the end times.
4)The Idealists view: Everything is symbolic of the timeless truths of good versus evil.

The style that Revelations is written in is known as apocolyptic. The word revelation is interchangable with the word apocolypse.

This is a highly symbolic kind of literature, penned at a time when the Roman authorities were starting to enforce the "cult of emperor worship". Taken in this historical context, the Preterist view makes the most sense and is the traditional interpretation. If, you however choose to ignore that the writter addresses the book to the seven churches in the province of Asia, then you can arrive at the other 3 interpretations.

The symbolism is used to obscure the message of warning that John(exiled to the isle of Patmos, a Roman penal colony)is sending to the churches of Asia Minor, to prepare them for the coming opposition and increasing hostility. The Babylon symbolism was a reference to the Roman Empire. The city on the seven hills is Rome.(described by Cicero, Virgil, and Martial)I read years ago that 666 can even be "decoded" into Nero Cesar ...etc.

A good commentary for each of the points of view is available and recommended, and the further you get from the traditional view, the more you have to contort the symbolism(and the context) to fit the interpretation.

73 posted on 09/15/2001 4:02:15 PM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou
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To: Hebrews 11:6
If Klintoon were President he'd probably blame this on the Rush Limbaugh Republicans.
77 posted on 09/15/2001 5:15:35 PM PDT by pankot
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To: Hebrews 11:6, All naysayers
To the naysayers

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

If you think God loves you too much to let you suffer YOU HAVE BELIEVED A LIE and you do not KNOW Him, you do not UNDERSTAND His ways and you do not believe His acts even though you see them with your own eyes.  You are an UNBELIEVER even though you may think of yourself as a Christian, or a Jew.

It is precisely because God loves America that He has just given this nation a FINAL WARNING.  Look at what got smashed down, two HIGH PLACES erected to the god of mammon, and a place in WDC errected to the god of forces, the Pentagon.  What got hit hardest was the PRIDE of the nation and PRIDE was the sin of Sodom.  Americans are proud of their money and power and equate these with righteousness but God say, "If you call yourselves My people, act like it, and if you love Me, keep my commandments" but the U.S.S.C. just threw out the commandments of God on the anniversary of the day God gave them to Moses.  How stupid!

America has broken the first and greatest commandment and God has quite simply had enough of it.  Look, read this and begin to understand His ways, and look around to see His acts, if you can receive it.

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Le 26:14 (KJV) But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;
15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:
16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
19 And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:
20 And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits.
21 And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.
22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.
23 And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
26 And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.
27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;
28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.
30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
31 And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours.

Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

Anyone who cannot see the hand of God in this attack upon America is a blind fool, wilfully blind and utterly deserving of what is coming down next.  The signs have been there for years.  Look at verse 17 for example "They that hate you shall reign over you".  Do you think the Clintons love you?  Fascist government; treason; anti-Christian government; homosexuality; abortion; polluted justice; the oppression of women and children; these are the fruits of a nominally Christian country which has BROKEN COVENANT with the Most High God.  REPENT America, REPENT Babylon America, REPENT Sodom America, REPENT! for The Day of the Lord is at Hand.

80 posted on 09/15/2001 5:52:44 PM PDT by 2sheep
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To: Hebrews 11:6
To: Heb 11:6

The destruction of Babylon takes place after the rapture of the church. IMO, your timetable is wrong.

82 posted on 09/15/2001 6:16:40 PM PDT by CWRWinger
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To: Hebrews 11:6, Thinkin' Gal, Prodigal Daughter, st huckleberry
It is the Word of God that gets the naysayers, every time.

Isa 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

84 posted on 09/15/2001 6:53:06 PM PDT by 2sheep
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To: Hebrews 11:6 and all
I see you've taken much abuse for your post. I'm sorry for that. Maybe you're right and maybe you're wrong. I'm no Bible scholar. However, I have to admit, when it happened I thought of the "Babylon is fallen" quotation. It just shows more credence and respect is given to Nostradamus or spirit guides or tarot cards than the Bible in some quarters. All you who are angered, why? This person has expressed a reasoned opinion. American is not innocent anymore. I have heard the terrorists have "no respect for life." Well, that also describes us since 1972. We export our decadence throughout the world via pop culture and call it intellectual property and we export our anti-humanity abortion solution and call it "emergency contraception." Anyway, America needs to sweep its own house clean. This is in no way to say don't react or overlook this unspeakable act. But to be physically/mentally strong we must first be spiritually strong.
90 posted on 09/15/2001 8:28:32 PM PDT by attagirl
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To: Victoria Delsoul
ping
92 posted on 09/15/2001 11:23:34 PM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: Hebrews 11:6
Baloney! Just read it.
96 posted on 09/16/2001 8:57:16 AM PDT by not-an-ostrich
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To: Hebrews 11:6
Man, have I heard such predictions after each and every human event since I could read, and NOT ONE of these predictions came true, not one. So, take your "turn to God or else" and go away. My God isn't a terrorist.
98 posted on 09/16/2001 9:08:57 AM PDT by PatrioticAmerican
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To: Hebrews 11:6
Why don't you go tell the innocent civilians in NYC that they are actually none other than Babylon in your view? Tell them you can "save" them from your high horse.

You would be booed away or worse.

This article is nonsense. NYC is not Babylon, and the Book of Revelation does not represent God.

Quit gloating over disaster and try to do something constructive.

108 posted on 09/16/2001 11:14:14 AM PDT by jonatron
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