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Is It Time for a New "Concealed Carry" Category.........for Air Travel?
self | 09/11/01 | RightOnline

Posted on 09/11/2001 8:16:26 PM PDT by RightOnline

In light of today's horrific events, wherein a group of highly-trained, highly-motivated terrorists apparently armed with knives and/or box cutters hijacked no fewer than four civilian airliners, I'd like to offer a proposal for your consideration.

Is it time, in light of the state of our world today, for a new category of "concealed carry" licensing? Let's call it, for lack of better phraseology for the time being, CCW-ATQ (ATQ = "Air Travel Qualified").

What I envision is a category of armed citizens who are a subset of those with "CCW" licenses. They would undergo much additional training, akin to the training given to the "Air Marshals" whom we've all read about. They would undergo background checks, etc., much like individuals seeking higher security clearances.

Once certified, a citizen possessing a CCW-ATQ license would be approved to carry a weapon aboard a civilian airliner. The aircraft crew would be notified whether or not they had any CCW-ATQ certified passengers, but would NOT be given names or seating assignments (terrorists would know if such was provided to aircrews, thereby making such passengers easy targets..........nullifying much of their effectiveness).

I don't offer this suggestion lightly or flippantly, but as a proposal for protection of air travellers in American airspace. I cannot help but think that if such was allowed today, the hijackings just might not have been so successful.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Editorial
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To: TEXASPROUD
No, I'd rather have a GLASER Safety Slug in .38 Special. Fatal (almost 100%, if you can get a head shot), but unlikely to overpenetrate.
21 posted on 09/11/2001 8:40:58 PM PDT by RANGERAIRBORNE
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To: RightOnline
You right on the money with this one.Just the thought, or potential, that someone on board is armed, could be all the deterrence you need.When that nut tried to take down the BA flight from Heathrow to Nairobi on New Year's, a weapon would have prevented him from even entering the cockpit area.
22 posted on 09/11/2001 8:41:18 PM PDT by habs4ever
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To: RightOnline
As for accidental discharge, keeping the mag out would be an option in this case. (I know, I know...sacrilege.) But if there was a situation where it were necessary to use the handgun, (in a terrorist situation like this), there would be time to put the mag in. That said, I feel terrible about even discussing this right now.
23 posted on 09/11/2001 8:41:51 PM PDT by July 4th
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To: RightOnline
They will never go for it because the liberals are more afraid of armed, honest citizens than terrorists.
24 posted on 09/11/2001 8:42:42 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants
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To: TEXASPROUD
.44 Special with a 200 grain gold dot hollow point would be ideal for cabin use.

No, Glaser's or Mag-Safe's were designed for use in aircraft cabins. They are lightweight bullets filled with a resin compound and bird-shot.

They are designed to fly at very high-velocity and fragment when they hit something, expending all the energy and not over-penetrate. I think it's Mag-Safe that makes one that was specifically designed to not even penetrate a standard piece of drywall.

The problem is that heavy clothing is enough to somewhat shield the target. But, it won't punch through aircraft (except for the windows).

25 posted on 09/11/2001 8:43:44 PM PDT by justlurking
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To: RightOnline
I think we should arm only the pilots.

The fewer the people that have the capacity to bring down the plane, the better. If a pilot has a gun, so what? He's already capable of destroying the plane. We also need locked cabins for the pilots.

26 posted on 09/11/2001 8:44:58 PM PDT by xm177e2
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To: ALL: SHOULD THIS BE BROUGHT UP?
Well, then.............should this be brought up as an "official" suggestion to Congress? State approval alone wouldn't cut it, since we're talking about interstate air travel. The NRA or GOA? Would they get behind something like this?
27 posted on 09/11/2001 8:46:05 PM PDT by RightOnline
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To: havoc1us
"box cutters..."

My thoughts were along the same lines all day. Just how many people could you fend off with a box cutter. Especially if all 91 of them were highly motivated, ie, overtake the jacker or hit the ground at 500 + mph.

28 posted on 09/11/2001 8:48:36 PM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: RightOnline
I'm not worried about people using a gun, just some morons who play with it during flight and having an ND. And, yes, according to the FBI stats, there are many NDs each year. Funny enough is that many are by cops! (Totally new thread needed for THAT subject!) I would say for flight thata gun MUST be unloaded and kept that way and any brandishing (unholstering) of a firearm would be cause for serious prosecution.

Besides, I think Travis said it best that we do not know the circumstances of the events, such as were they holding a little girl by the throat and no one even imagined these rag heads ending the flight with a crash. People might have been thinking that it would simply be best to cooperate and wait until landing.

29 posted on 09/11/2001 8:49:56 PM PDT by PatrioticAmerican
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To: xm177e2
Not necessarily disagreeing strongly with your points, but:

"I think we should arm only the pilots." The fewer the people that have the capacity to bring down the plane, the better. If a pilot has a gun, so what? He's already capable of destroying the plane."

Maybe..........but you just cut the odds, significantly, of onboard weaponry being a deterrent. If you're a nutcase terrorist and know that the ONLY weapon(s) is/are up front, you have a HUGE edge.

"We also need locked cabins for the pilots."

Already have 'em; have had 'em for years. Piece of cake to get through.........believe me.

30 posted on 09/11/2001 8:50:08 PM PDT by RightOnline
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To: July 4th
As for accidental discharge, keeping the mag out would be an option in this case. (I know, I know...sacrilege.) But if there was a situation where it were necessary to use the handgun, (in a terrorist situation like this), there would be time to put the mag in.

Mags out, empty chambers, etc. should never be an option. Why handicap yourself? The seconds spent seating a mag and racking the slide are likely critical moments and lost oportunities.

31 posted on 09/11/2001 8:50:29 PM PDT by TC Rider
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To: RightOnline
I agree 100%, having a so-called security guard on each flight would 1: raise prices for flights, and 2: would give the terrorists a first target.

I would take the classes, I would pay to take the classes, I would feel MUCH safer on a flight if I had a way to defend myself and fellow passengers. I could be talked into carrying a lower velocity bullet that would not penetrate the planes shell, but would penetrate a terrorist.

A terrorist would be much less likely to hijack a plane if they knew that there could be up to 10-100 armed citizens on that plane ready to take him out as soon as he moved to take over the plane. And of course he had no clue who or whom they are.
32 posted on 09/11/2001 8:50:43 PM PDT by Aric2000
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To: xm177e2
I think the stewardesses and stewards too. Even more so for them because they can shoot hijackers before they get in the cabin.
33 posted on 09/11/2001 8:51:07 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: RightOnline
Some would, but it would face MAJOR opposition and be a real fight. Maybe the first step would be some FAA regulation adjustments as a stepping stone to congressional action. Best wishes, bud.
34 posted on 09/11/2001 8:52:07 PM PDT by JPR_Boise_ID
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To: RightOnline
Arm the flight crew. If we trust them with a friggin' jet liner, we can surely trust them to carry.
35 posted on 09/11/2001 8:52:35 PM PDT by Let's Roll
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: PatrioticAmerican
". People might have been thinking that it would simply be best to cooperate and wait until landing."

And, historically speaking, they would have been absolutely right in that assumption.

Except for today.

Specifically, on the flight on which Barbara Olsen flew, she was told by her husband, Ted (via phone), about the two hijacked aircraft that crashed into the WTC towers. They knew, therefore, that the odds were great that they, too, would be used for such a suicide mission. However, they were unarmed. IF a few of them had been armed, there's no doubt this would have been headed off. That's all I'm saying; NOT second-guessing the passengers' actions (or inactions) today.

37 posted on 09/11/2001 8:54:08 PM PDT by RightOnline
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To: RightOnline
Ever notice how hijackings declined when flights became non-smoking? Would you, as a potential hijacker, want to face a cabin full of nicotine-deprived passengers who might be packing iron?

As a smoker and frequent flyer, I can tell you that the air traffic controllers run serious risk of bodily harm if I think the plane orbits the field just once too often...

38 posted on 09/11/2001 8:54:31 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder
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To: Alberta's Child
While I agree in principle with RightOnLine's suggestion, I also think that your suggestions are an even better line for the airlines to take. Incapacitation rather than fatal action is always preferable.
39 posted on 09/11/2001 8:55:43 PM PDT by JPR_Boise_ID
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To: RightOnline
A bullet hole in a pressurised cabin would not happen with qualified CCW persons. There is ammo such as 'Mag-Safe' which will do tremendous damage on tissue, but will not penetrate an aircraft window or skin. I use it in my house gun, because it will not go through a sheetrock wall.

So9

40 posted on 09/11/2001 8:55:45 PM PDT by Servant of the Nine (Crank up the Enola Gay)
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