Hijacked pilots may have been murdered before crashes

Electronic Telegraph ^ | September 11, 2001

[dalebert]

As usual Americans have no weapons to defend themselves.

[Terriergal]

Just a story restating the obvious. Nothing to see here.

[Mugwumps]

That's what we're hearing through the grapevine. That US military had scrambled three planes and shot it down to prevent it crashing into its intended target.

[Map Kernow]

It might also be necessary to prevent calls from being made from and to aircraft. It is rumored that the terrorists coordinated their actions by phone between the aircraft.

I was on a flight a few weeks ago where the stewardess practically had to grab the cellular out of the hands of an Arabic-speaking woman who simply ignored her repeated requests to "put it away."

[classygreeneyedblonde]

but wouldnt the metal dectors go off i think they tried this b4 on earlier flights to see if they could get thru

[RGSpincich]

plastic

[L`enn]

Easy, Inside job. Food service, maintainence workers, all plants, i.e. Mission Impossible.

[L`enn]

You got that right. Rejects from Wal-Mart Greeters Institute.

[spiker]

Source:
Canada.com Breaking News

Experts: Terrorists must have had own pilots in scheme that defied planning

[Alberta's Child]

I suspected immediately that it was brought down by an Air National Guard unit. My understanding is that these ANG units can scramble their aircraft in the U.S. more quickly than the U.S. military can. The problem with the U.S. military is that they are not well-prepared to deal with domestic incidents.

[chalk]

unfortunately, it is not difficult to carry knives onto airplanes. shortly after the gulf war, a friend of mine (innocently) carried a set of professional knives onto an airplane by merely presenting an american restaurant association business card.

[Mahone]

Modern weapons made from materials other than plastic may also have been used to avoid detection at airport terminals.

Anyone ever watch the East Meets West show on the Food Network? The host, Ming Tsi, has a whole line of the new wonder knives from Japan, they are ceramic. Handles are wood or plastic, and brother are they sharp knives! Would they show up in screening?

[BansheeBill]

I would like to know how they got passed airport security with guns or knives in all these different airports

Well, they could have easily gotten the so called CIA "letter opener" through security. It's available from cheap knife sellers at flea markets across the country and from a lot of online sources:

Here's a description from one website that sells them. They sell pretty well at flea markets in urban areas to students who attend high schools that use metal detectors looking for guns and knives.





With the help of Blackie Collins, Shomer-Tec has updated the classic, but decades-old, C.I.A. letter opener for the new millennium. This updated version is made from GV6H, the high-tech composite from Switzerland made with 60% glass fibers.

This completely non-metallic letter opener provides superior plunging power as well as a hard edge. The scalloped serrated edge on one side gives additional opening power on fiberous materials. The built-in clip eliminates the need for a sheath since it can clip directly to a belt,pants, sock, etc. The contoured handle is comfortable to hold and has a thumb depression for a secure grip. There is a hole in the handle for attachment of a lanyard. The CIA letter opener is completely non-metallic, non-magnetic, and non-absorbent, making this a perfect item for EOD personnel. Total length 7.5" non-reflective black. Price $10.00

[DWPittelli]

Speculation on terrorist mass murder of September 11, 2001 First, the 4 hijackings were obviously centrally directed as to strategy and timing. It is also most likely that tactics were centrally directed. Independent teams working out their own tactics for attaining control of the plane would take longer and clearly have higher risk of early detection, or failure, or poor timing, than a centrally directed plan such as this one, which could probably achieve the level of success as this one did even with only 16 people in the US. It would not be necessary to have help from airline or airport employees. The hijackers carried knives or box cutters (based on, e.g., Olson phone call). Not the ideal weapon, or even the ideal knives, for the affair. While guns might be obtained with inside help from airport security, today’s plan required teams to reliably get on 4 planes, and even good inside help could not guarantee that with serious weapons. (Even a medium-sized steel Rambo knife would possibly get found even with the best terrorist operatives, and the plan had to let 4 teams of hijackers at 3 airports to get through with low risk of any detections.) Far more reliable to sneak on with fake knives, or quite real nylon knives, which would do the trick with several adult men taking charge of an airplane. The terrorists would expect that the passengers would never quite motivate themselves to fight back, especially since passengers don’t expect hijackers to kill themselves by taking out the whole plane. That said, the Pittsburgh crash in the middle of nowhere was probably the result of such a fight. Surely the hijackers wanted some target besides rural Pennsylvania, so unless their pilot was uniquely incompetent, that means the terrorists did not hold complete control over the cockpit, and thus that the passengers and/or crew fought back, with some success. There were probably about 4 men on each plane. 3 at a minimum, 6 at a maximum. Under 4 men and the odds of taking over a group of 60 or more people goes way down with mere knives. Over 4 men, and the odds of secrecy being compromised go up quickly (even with 6 men, you have 24 people on 4 planes, a lot to keep secret, whether they are foreigners or domestic). Also, the fact that the hijackers could not quickly take and keep control in 1 of the 4 cases (Pittsburgh) is another reason to expect that the number was probably not much over 4. The planes did not go to the closest targets (e.g., the plane that took off from NYC did not attack in NYC). That was to maximize the odds that all the planes would be in the air, even if one were delayed, before crashes would shut down the system. Planes going to close targets would otherwise be better, due to better fuel loads (as everyone has properly speculated, the terrorists used transcontinental flights for big fuel loads). The terrorists would not want to depend on in-air communications to ensure this timing. Everyone, of course, assumes it was Muslims, although they are generally loathe to say it in so many words, after some such early speculation on Oklahoma City proved completely baseless. We will know soon enough. The men almost certainly bought tickets – no need to sneak on when anyone can buy a ticket for relatively trivial money and a mediocre ID. The men were also almost certainly buying the tickets under assumed names, and if they were smart, names which they did not use in any other context (such as housing or purchases of other goods or services, including previous travel). But odds are a witness somewhere will be able to remember what some of them looked like, and what languages/accents they spoke in.

[Lazamataz]

Instead, it is possible they were shot dead in the cockpit

Incorrect. Knives seem to have been used. But the rest might be true.

[Cletus.D.Yokel]

Down over Western Pennsylvania.

Can anyone say say, "Point Bessie Nuclear Plant"????. Bet my left testicle on that target.

[Map Kernow]

Handles are wood or plastic, and brother are they sharp knives! Would they show up in screening?

Don't know about the X-ray, but the metal detector isn't going to pick it up. And of course, the conspirators are going to keep their weapons on their own persons rather than putting them through the baggage X-ray.

[xm177e2]

I would like to know how they got passed airport security with guns or knives in all these different airports

You can put a knife in your pocket, and walk right through the metal detector, as long as it isn't metal.

There are kinds of ceramic knives that are stronger than any steel knives out there, so the quality of the weapons is not in question.

[michaelje]

I live in boston and fly in and out of logan, the security is a joke. Mostly affimitive action employees.

[TransOxus]

Instead of bombing the living daylights out of the Middle East and decimating the filth and their spawn, now are we to live in fear and start banning pocket knives or anything sharp. Guess we will now have to eat in plane with hands or rather everybody has to now fly naked to get past security.