King David Hotel, 1946
No nazis, though. British and even some Jews.
Posted on 09/11/2001 4:07:58 PM PDT by Illbay
Just above the text box into which I'm typing, it says, and I quote, "NO racist or violence posts."
Ladies and Gentlemen, FReepers of every race, CREED and color, I urge an immediate moratorium on the nauseatingly bigoted comments directed against "Islam," or "Muslims," or any negative reference to anyone strictly because of his or her religion. FR is no place for this trash, and I'd like to publicly call on the Esteemed Moderators to hunt down and erase all such tripe from FR.
I'll make you a deal, I'll tell you when you tell me how to tell which Christian is an extremist who is going to blow up or help blow up a federal building (which had a daycare center by the way, but I'm sure that doesn't matter to you).
I will tell you when you tell me how to pick a serial murderer out of a crowd of people. I will tell you when you tell me how to pick a rapist or pedophile out of a crowd.
>By every report, the terrorists seemed to be very nice, harmless people until they murdered all our fellow citizens in NY.
Had you seen anybody from Koresh's group walking down the street, could you have told just from looking at them that they were child molestors? Their neighbors reported they were nice CHRISTIAN folk who kept to themselves.
You can't tell, the only way would be if the government tracked every single citizen 24 hours a day, what we did, what we read, who we talked to, etc. If that is truly what you want, there is a website just for you, the democraticunderground.
I wish people would take time to read the response when replying to them. I mentioned HIS DAD WAS A VIETNAM VET. Hello, anybody there?
/sarcasm on
You make a good point though, we have a serious problem with Central and South America as far as drugs. When I was in the Army, there were many Central and South Americans, as well as Mexicans, who were in the Army because of the benefits and the citizenship opportunities. I guess anybody who is from Central or South America who came here recently should be suspected as a drug dealer or one of the leftis guerillas that are fighting down there
/sarcasm off
Well, maybe as soon as they stop theirs...
23 February 1998
Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin
Ayman al-Zawahiri, amir of the Jihad Group in Egypt
Abu-Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, Egyptian Islamic Group
Shaykh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan
Fazlul Rahman, amir of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh
Praise be to God, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but God is worshipped, God who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders.
The Arabian Peninsula has never -- since God made it flat, created its desert, and encircled it with seas -- been stormed by any forces like the crusader armies spreading in it like locusts, eating its riches and wiping out its plantations. All this is happening at a time in which nations are attacking Muslims like people fighting over a plate of food. In the light of the grave situation and the lack of support, we and you are obliged to discuss current events, and we should all agree on how to settle the matter.
No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone:
All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al-Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said: "As for the fighting to repulse [an enemy], it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed [by the ulema]. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life."First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.
If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it. The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless.
Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.
So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors.
Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there. The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.
On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it [EMPHASIS ADDED], in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God."
This is in addition to the words of Almighty God: "And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? -- women and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'"
We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson.
Almighty God said: "O ye who believe, give your response to God and His Apostle, when He calleth you to that which will give you life. And know that God cometh between a man and his heart, and that it is He to whom ye shall all be gathered."
Almighty God also says: "O ye who believe, what is the matter with you, that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of God, ye cling so heavily to the earth! Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For God hath power over all things."
Almighty God also says: "So lose no heart, nor fall into despair. For ye must gain mastery if ye are true in faith."
You'll find this information at --
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm
I also think there are many more warning signals that Christians would make if they were planning such a thing, these Arabs apparently were friendly neighbors, likeable students all the while they plotted to do this thing. Also it's one thing for our own citizens to have complete freedoms but we wrongly gave it to non-citizens who despised us.
ALL???? Funny the Mullahs are using the word ALL but here in the US our political correctness makes sure we don't. I don't wish to harm any Muslims or harass them, but right now I don't know if any can be trusted. Why aren't the Mullahs careful to include only the ones in their own evil sect?
King David Hotel, 1946
No nazis, though. British and even some Jews.
I hope we don't get in a police action, I think we should take the time, figure out what groups are connected, and then hit them all at once, and I'm talking no prisoners, I'm talking a shot to the head and move on. I have a feeling though we will make a large all at once assault, and then end up in a situation where we are killing 6 or 9 or whatever a day.
people over there understand this. When President Reagan bombed Libya and it killed some of Khadaffi's family and friends, he shut up. I don't see that in this case, but I think if we do it large and hard enough, I think countries are going to be reluctant to harbor them. What leader is going to harbor a group knowing that when we find out he is finished as is his country.
The problem is, we haven't done that. Clinton did his touch-feelly cruise missle strike and blew up a few farm animals. He didn't hit the capital, he didn't go after the taliban leadership. People do not think the US is capable of that, we are, and they are about to find out.
Even Iran of all places, sealed the Afghanistan border, and is in talks with American authorities. IRAN! I find it hard to believe, but I think they know how serious we are. I wouldn't be surprised if they are saying right now "Here's the hamas membership list, please leave us alone". Is it a coincidence they let our POWs go (and I believe they were POWs and not hostages) when President Reagan took office? They knew.
> Relieve the PA police of their duties, investigate them toroughly, and execute the terrorists among them
They have been a joke and a half. Israelis have even taken out some of their members in broad daylight. About the only thing they are good at is intimidating foreign journalists.
>in Israel in 1996, escaped to the US and the US refused to extradite him because he _was an American national_? But he seems to have been one of those Palestinians holding US citizenship
That's exactly like that college student that got away with murder up in the NE US because he fled to Israel because of his dual citizenship. I don't know how they are going to change the politics of that mess. On the one hand we don't want the Isrealis popping into the US and taking people at gunpoint no matter who they are, but on the other, these things need to have exceptions made. Here in Texas, there have been a couple of Mexican nationals who we have put to death for murder, and people have protested saying that somehow his being from another country allows him to ignore our laws. That's a pretty clear cut case, but had he gotten away from Texas and to Mexico, there's no telling how it would turn out. We can't just have Texas Rangers going into Mexico these days like that, but something has to be done.
A good case in point, the Russian who recently published how to break encryption on Adobe software (or books I don't remember). He did it in his country, where there are no laws against breaking encryption and yet our federal agents arrest him here and he is going to be tried in this country. What happens when somebody here posts something or does something that is against the law in another country but legal here, and that country tries to arrest them?
So if a Christian extremist says ALL Christians must take arms and blow up ALL federal buildings or kill all (insert religion here), that means all Christians everywhere should?
Your playing word games. Just because a radical extremist says something, you can't extrapolate that out to include all members of a religion, be they Christian or Moslem.
>I don't wish to harm any Muslims or harass them, but right now I don't know if any can be trusted.
So are you saying people shouldn't trust Christians after OKC and Waco and that Catholics shouldn't be trusted after the Inquisition?
>Why aren't the Mullahs careful to include only the ones in their own evil sect?
For the same reason extremist Christians don't say "Only Christians who are in this room are to blow up this building or father children with thirteen year old girls". It doesn't pack as much punch as saying "All Christians should rise up and kill all federal employees" or whatever.
I urge an immediate moratorium on the nauseatingly bigoted comments directed against "Islam," or "Muslims," or any negative reference to anyone strictly because of his or her religion.
I couldn't agree more. But, labeling Islam as a religion based in truth is, according to Jesus Christ, WRONG! Devotees to Islam will go to hell if they don't repent and accept Christ as their Savior.
Don't denigrate messengers. Comment on the message and whether or not it's truthful.
I Timothy 2:5 reads, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"
John 14:6 reads, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 3:3 "5: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
Jesus backed up His claims by rising from the dead. Mohammed is still dead. God is alive. Allah is a figment of one's imagination. These are tough truths to swallow but once Muslims ask God for deliverance from Islam and salvation by placing faith in Christ a great weight is lifted from their shoulders.
Lord help us, we are now seeing a living demonstration of how the Germans went down the path that led to the killing of six million Jews.
I bet your aching for an American version of Kristallnacht aren't you?
- November 9, 1938 Nazi Germany
- Sep/Nov, 2001? America?
WE ARE NOT COMPARING CHRISTIANITY WITH ISLAM, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EXTREME MINORITIES OF THESE RELIGIONS.
I'm a white Christian, Republican, male who doesn't care for some of the things the government has done in the past.
Does that men people in this country are going to judge me based on the actions of a few nutcases in Waco and OKC? No.
Judging another man or woman based on the actions of a few nutcases that claim to practice the same religion is so unAmerican it makes my blood boil. We left England and fought several wars to get away from this S**T. Our fathers and grandfathers spilled their blood in Europe to free a people who were judged by the actions of a few (and even then those actions were made up by the nazis)
>I honestly don't know where the majority of Muslims stand on this,
Why don't you drive down to your local Mosque and ask them. Why don't you ask the next one you see when your out and about. Some people on here won't take that step, because they are afraid they are going to find Moslems who are grieving over the death of their fellow Americans (and their fellow Moslems who were in the WTC when it was hit).
As to racism, Islam is not a race. Indeed, Islam has used violence to convert nations and tribes of every race, as different as the Sudanese and the Albanians. Indeed, a unifying factor amongst these disparate peoples is the violence they bring to their unconverted neighbors.
I am not speaking of some medieval episode. It is happening now in Kosovo, in Macedonia, in the Phillipines, in East Timor in Indonesia, and most clearly of all, in The Sudan. As I type, Muslims are killing, starving, torturing and enslaving Christians in the southern regions of The Sudan. Elsewhere in the world of Islam, aid workers and missionaries are imprisoned.
Where, oh where is the voice of "moderate Islam," to condemn these unspeakable atrocities? Where is the voice that could have called the authorities about these terrorists in their American Muslim midst? There is no such voice, because there is no such thing as "moderate Islam."
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