The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 139

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | sinkspur

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 138

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Why can't you just answer the question without all...whatever it was you said did not answer my questions. There is no reason to be so defensive. And what can the catholic church do to please me. Answer questions without all the double talk. I very seldom understand anything you say, or see where it answers any questions. If it seems that I harp on things, it's becasue you never give an understandable answer. What in the world does angels and demons have to do with the question. Unless you think Mother Teresa is now an angel. Speak English!!

Becky

[D-fendr]

Communion with the saints. "It is not merely by the title of example that we cherish the memory of those in heaven; we seek, rather, that by this devotion to the exercise of fraternal charity the union of the whole Church in the Spirit may be strengthened. Exactly as Christian communion among our fellow pilgrims brings us closer to Christ, so our communion with the saints joins us to Christ, from whom as from its fountain and head issues all grace, and the life of the People of God itself"

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

So do you believe they can come back and spiritually guide people?

Becky

[D-fendr]

Becky, when I answer your questions, I find it was not your real question or what you were looking for. You do not wish to clarify the doctrine, you already understand the doctrine, you don't believe the doctrine, you think we lie about the doctrine. First it was Mary, now it is the communion of saints. Persuing either will have the same result: futility.

Your questions go in circles, because there is no answer possible to them and the answer to your question is not what you are seeking.

There is nothing the church can do to please you or satisfy you. Until you look at what it is you really want, your questions will not be the right questions for you and they will not be helpful to you or to others.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Your questions go in circles, because there is no answer possible to them and the answer to your question is not what you are seeking.

I'm sorry. My questions go in circles, because IMO your answers go in circles:). It seems very hard to get a straight answer. Usually you get a question throwed at you as an answer.

I ask the questions to find out if I am understanding what you say the catholic church teaches. Once I feel I understand (sometimes that takes a while, given the answers I get:) then I want to know if the belief or doctrine or issue, can be backed up with scripture. If it can't, or if I have a different interpretation of a scripture I say so. Then we can discuss our differences, and maybe both learn something from said discussions.

I thought we all agreeded to disagree. I can't agree with what your chruch teaches, but I learn alot discussing our differences.

If this topic has already been discussed, I missed it, sorry. If you don't like my questions don't answer.

Becky

[D-fendr]

"I ask the questions to find out if I am understanding what you say the catholic church teaches."

We teach the communion of saints. The church, the body of Christ are one in eternity. Some of this body are existent in this finite incarnation we call life. Some are not.

You can begin to find out more:

here

But if you wish to have greater understanding you will also realize that these things and those I asked you about earlier are not susceptible to simple conceptual description. The church is not a set of doctrine, it is much more than that.

Now, do you wish to know more or do you wish to continue until you find something you can more strongly reject? Do you wish to discuss beliefs with mutual respect or just tell me what's wrong, bad, dishonest and evil with my church?

[JHavard]

pegleg, here is a copy and paste shorter Version of Ignatius letter to the Ephesians right out of the New Advent web site, now tell me, what is there in this Epistle that every Christian won't agree with?

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians

Short Version

Ignatius, who is also called Theopharus, to the Church which is at Ephesus, in Asia, deservedly most happy, being blessed in the greatness and fulness of God the Father, and predestinated before the beginning of time, that it should be always for an enduring and unchangeable glory, being united and elected through the true passion by the will of the Father, and Jesus Christ, our God: Abundant happiness through Jesus Christ, and His undefiled grace.

[RobbyS]

I mean, it's nice to honor those who have lived exemplary lives of faith, but some of my Catholic friends talk incessantly about St. Anthony or St. Jude or St. Christopher etc., etc., etc, but for Jesus, they have not a word, unless it's as an expletive. This is SO very common that I wonder why the Catholic Church doesn't (at least to my limited knowledge) take corrective action. To a Catholic "communion of saints" is not a casual phrase, but one that describes a living community that has endured for two thousand years. The saints are a reminder that in time of need God will raise up champions. We know what Christ is, but the saints are reminders that mere flesh and blood--even we--are capable of approaching the"impossible" standard that Jesus set for us while in earth. The litany of the saints is the true hierarchy of the Church, and the Feast of All-Saints reminds us that for every celebrated saint, there are many whose names have gone unsung. Maybe your grandmother, or a neighbor.

[the808bass]

Socrates scores, got a beautiful cross from Archimedes. The Germans are disputing it. Hegel is arguing that the reality is merely an a priori adjunct of non-naturalistic ethics, Kant via the categorical imperative is holding that ontologically it exists only in the imagination, and Marx is claiming it was offside.

Ah... the payoff. Love it.

[the808bass]

what is there in this Epistle that every Christian won't agree with?

I sure didn't find much Ignatius that I disagree with. I enjoyed it.

[D-fendr]

hehehe, I can still hear Palin's commentary see parts of the sketch in my memory.

I read that it was on a video tape release, gonna look for it next time. Thanks for the reminder…

[apologist]

What's amazing is not that the Christians follow a Jewish God (as if He were a tribal possession), but that there exists such a thing as a Christian anti-semite.

Amen. Good post.

[the808bass]

The word Paul used in the 1 Cor. passage is from qaptw which is translated "buried." While I guess that's as good a translation as anything, it has a broad range of meaning, from cremation to last rites (Perseus). So, it seems that there is no contradiction between "buried" and "laid in a tomb."

[the808bass]

I read that it was on a video tape release

I've rented it a couple times at Blockbuster (probably could've owned it several times over what with the ubiquitous late fees and such).

[apologist]

Acts 13:27 is not speaking of the Roman rulers, but of the Jewish rulers, (Sanhedrin, Pharisees) and the Jews that were in Jerusalem at the time. They are the ones who took Jesus to Pilate, even though they knew He had done nothing wrong to deserve being crucified. The "they" that is being spoken of though .29 are the Jews, and Jewish rulers. Joseph of Arimethea was a member of the Sanhedrin.

Yep... in all the times I've been thru the Gospels in the last 10 yrs or so I've been a Christian, it took a recent sermon on Joseph of Arimethea to make me realize that the guy who provided the tomb for Jesus was (a) a member of the Sanhedrin and (b) had help in preparing the body for burial by Nicodemus, another member of the council, the same guy who came to Jesus one night and asked what it meant to be born again.

Two significant leaders taking the body, carefully preparing it for burial with 75 lbs of myrrh and aloes, and properly burying it, with not a peep from any of the disciples. Weird.

It's humbling to see how much Scripture has to reveal over and over again with different readings!

[apologist]

For example, you probably wouldn't suspect Patsy Cline is also one of my favorites.

My dad played her stuff (as well as other 50s-60s country artists) constantly while I was growing up. I would have never thought that I'd be listening to her myself today. An amazing voice... too bad it tragically ended.

She did some interesting early obscure gospel stuff too.

[apologist]

2) Paul compares and contrasts Adams and Christ and seems to be saying that we shall receive a body such as Adam had before the fall,

I had always assumed that Adam had an immortal body before the Fall, but heard an interesting different perspective a while back...

If Adam was intrinsically immortal, why was there a Tree of Life that he ate from, and was barred from? (Ge 3:22-24) Was the "death through sin" (Ro 5:12) a physical, or spiritual death? And if physical, was it because our bodies changed, or because humanity was cut off from the Tree of Life?

[D-fendr]

also, consider that before "knowing good and evil" God walked among them in the Garden. Afterwards, not.

[RobbyS]

If Adam was intrinsically immortal, The, or at least, an accepted teaching is that immortality was not natural but a supernatural gift. Maybe this fits the notion that the "Fall" had nothing to do with sex, except the realization by Adams and Eve that after their "descent into raw matter" they had been stripped of personal immortality and that their natural immortality was in their progeny. Please understand that I am simply speculating.

[malakhi]

O Mighty Angelo, would you grace us with a new thread? (^_^)

You ain't prayin' to me, are you dadwags? ;o)