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No matter how distasteful we find Trump and Vance over Europe, they speak a blunt truth
The Guardian ^ | 02/21/2025 | Simon Jenkins

Posted on 02/21/2025 2:25:52 PM PST by TexasKamaAina

What Trump/Vance are now saying to western Europe is get serious. The cold war is over. You know Russia has no desire to occupy western Europe. This proclaimed threat is a fantasy got up by what a wise president, Dwight Eisenhower, called the US’s military-industrial complex, long practised at extracting profit from fear.

(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; European Union; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Russia; Ukraine
KEYWORDS: europe; jdvance; mic; putin; trump; vance; zelensky
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I was surprised to see this in The Guardian. The author is careful to disparage Trump and Vance enough so as not to get pilloried by The Guardian's typical readers but makes a case for their fundamental complaints about Europe.
1 posted on 02/21/2025 2:25:52 PM PST by TexasKamaAina
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To: TexasKamaAina

TDS Globalist trash talking


2 posted on 02/21/2025 2:30:56 PM PST by Iron Munro (Them millionaires don't make themselves)
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To: TexasKamaAina

They find Free Speech distasteful.


3 posted on 02/21/2025 2:33:08 PM PST by Williams (Thank God for the election of President Trump!)
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To: TexasKamaAina
Eisenhower's "Military-Industrial Complex" Speech Origins and Significance
4 posted on 02/21/2025 2:34:35 PM PST by MinorityRepublican
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To: TexasKamaAina

Time and again, we see the same moralistic, Zeeper, garbage talking points here on FR for NATO and the US to keep intervening in Ukraine, etc, but it’s refuted by JD Vance quite eloquently here where he responds to another person on X:

“This is moralistic garbage, which is unfortunately the rhetorical currency of the globalists because they have nothing else to say.

For three years, President Trump and I have made two simple arguments: first, the war wouldn’t have started if President Trump was in office; second, that neither Europe, nor the Biden administration, nor the Ukrainians had any pathway to victory. This was true three years ago, it was true two years ago, it was true last year, and it is true today.

And for three years, the concerns of people who were obviously right were ignored. What is Niall’s actual plan for Ukraine? Another aid package? Is he aware of the reality on the ground, of the numerical advantage of the Russians, of the depleted stock of the Europeans or their even more depleted industrial base?

Instead, he quotes from a book about George HW Bush from a different historical period and a different conflict. That’s another currency of these people: reliance on irrelevant history.

President Trump is dealing with reality, which means dealing with facts. And here are some facts:

Number one, while our Western European allies’ security has benefitted greatly from the generosity of the United States, they pursue domestic policies (on migration and censorship) that offend the sensibilities of most Americans and defense policies that assume continued over-reliance.

Number two, Russians have a massive numerical advantage in manpower and weapons in Ukraine, and that advantage will persist regardless of further Western aid packages. Again, the aid is *currently* flowing.

Number three, the United States retains substantial leverage over both parties to the conflict.

Number four, ending the conflict requires talking to the people involved in starting it and maintaining it.

Number five, the conflict has placed—and continues to place—stress on tools of American statecraft, from military stockpiles to sanctions (and so much else). We believe the continued conflict is bad for Russia, bad for Ukraine, and bad for Europe. But most importantly, it is bad for the United States.

Given the above facts, we must pursue peace, and we must pursue it now. President Trump ran on this, he won on this, and he is right about this. It is lazy, ahistorical nonsense to attack as “appeasement” every acknowledgment that America’s interest must account for the realities of the conflict.

That interest—not moralisms or historical illiteracy—will guide President Trump’s policy in the weeks to come.

And thank God for that.”

https://x.com/JDVance/status/1892569791140946073


5 posted on 02/21/2025 2:37:49 PM PST by Its All Over Except ...
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To: TexasKamaAina

Loaded lead by these pieces of drek.


6 posted on 02/21/2025 2:39:17 PM PST by Luke21
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To: All

Apply what was said by JD Vance in post #5 to the bogus arguments by some here on this thread, or as many threads here at FR as it takes:

“4 days before the Russian invasion... Macron told Putin that the Minsk agreements had no legal force and is worthless! Macron smashed the last hopes Putin had for a diplomatic settlement, Emanuel wanted war”

https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4299320/posts


7 posted on 02/21/2025 2:41:50 PM PST by Its All Over Except ...
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To: Its All Over Except ...

Not our circus not our monkeys.Said so from the begging.


8 posted on 02/21/2025 2:43:22 PM PST by jmacusa (Liberals. Too stupid to be idiots.)
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To: TexasKamaAina

So Trump and Vance speak a blunt truth that is indeed truth and that Europe needs to hear. And yet it’s distasteful that anyone would tell them that truth. Geez these people are schizo


9 posted on 02/21/2025 2:43:52 PM PST by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s, you weren't really there)
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To: jmacusa

Fact!


10 posted on 02/21/2025 2:45:36 PM PST by Its All Over Except ...
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To: TexasKamaAina

“You know Russia has no desire to occupy western Europe.”
I’m not sure I agree with that statement.
Russia certainly wants to control Europe to Russia’s
economic advantage as Russia is still a semi-Dictatorship,
and they don’t have enough people to control their vast
lands.
They also have a world class navy they can barely afford
or keep fully manned.

I can only explain this as Ego, as to why with a shrinking population, you waste so many young men and future workers
on a failed war, for resources you could easily have bought
from a crooked government.


11 posted on 02/21/2025 2:51:05 PM PST by rellic (No such thing as a moderate Moslem or Democrat )
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To: TexasKamaAina

It’s his way of saying; being told the truth is not easy to hear, but you had better hear it, and react to correct the cluster-you-know-what before we fall on our faces. Because we are doing just that. He for one is tired of being told sweet little lies as the decline not only continues, but is actually accelerating.


12 posted on 02/21/2025 2:52:55 PM PST by Robert DeLong
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To: TexasKamaAina

Link?


13 posted on 02/21/2025 2:54:51 PM PST by Thurifer the Censer (If you can see the altar, there's not enough smoke)
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To: TexasKamaAina

Link messed up? Goes to a sketchy go daddy page.


14 posted on 02/21/2025 2:57:01 PM PST by mmichaels1970 ( )
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To: Its All Over Except ...

I would say there is one path to victory, and that’s a 1917-like Revolution that overthrows the Putin government, by the Russians themselves. Hopefully this time without the Bolsheviks ultimately seizing power.


15 posted on 02/21/2025 2:57:35 PM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: Thurifer the Censer

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/21/donald-trump-jd-vance-europe-us-realignment


16 posted on 02/21/2025 2:58:00 PM PST by Darksheare (Those who support liberal "Republicans" summarily support every action by same. )
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To: mmichaels1970

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/21/donald-trump-jd-vance-europe-us-realignment


17 posted on 02/21/2025 2:58:15 PM PST by Darksheare (Those who support liberal "Republicans" summarily support every action by same. )
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To: TexasKamaAina

At the height of the Ukraine war there were some really stupid ideas used to drum up support for the war.

Ideas that were not even rational if you look at some simple numbers.

Russia was said to threaten Western Europe, remember that one?

But discounting NATO and our formal allies which skew things even more in our favor in a very dramatic way, just comparing Russia to the US, Russia had (before the war and mobilization):

55% of our ground forces
47% of our air force
43% of our navy.

Russia has 44% of our population, and 40% the number of men reaching military age. They have less industry, less high tech, a smaller intel service, 1/5 our economy by PPP, 1/10 by GDP, spend about 1/10 what we do on war.

But here’s the real problem for Russia. Russia has few allies and most are weak. They are smaller and less developed economies with small populations. Most are mired down with internal or external threats (Armenia): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization

NATO nations on the other hand like the UK and France are fairly powerful militarily. They are nuclear powers. Many of our NATO partners are very populous, economically, industrially and technologically capable like Germany.

How were the Russians going to do this?

Did anyone actually believe that garbage? Or was it just something that we’re supposed to say because some politician said so and the fact checked MSM repeated it, but everyone knows it is nonsense?

How is Russia and her allies, with a force ratio about 1/6 of the West going to invade and conquer like we were told? Hahaha

Not counting the difference in technology and stockpiles on hand (where we also have a huge advantage), with a 1:6 combat power disadvantage, the BEST you can hope for is a delaying action, and we were told they want to invade Western Europe with that sort of disadvantage.

The folks that bought this garbage probably thought the plot to Red Dawn II was believable too.


18 posted on 02/21/2025 3:15:16 PM PST by Red6
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To: Red6

Only a madman would think of invading Russia, but the fact is, when Russia fights outside of Russia, they tend not to do very well, see Finland.

And even when defeating the Nazis, they still lost a lot of men just to take Berlin.


19 posted on 02/21/2025 3:17:14 PM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: rellic

At this point, it’s an improvement for Russia to occupy Western Europe. At least, they won’t be Islamarized and sodomized as bad.


20 posted on 02/21/2025 3:21:08 PM PST by Choppo
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