Posted on 03/16/2024 11:18:08 AM PDT by MinorityRepublican
No-
No major power accepts another playing on their border.
We were willing to risk a major nuclear war over this very exact issue we are expecting Russia to accept today: https://www.facebook.com/rishibagree/videos/1997-the-only-thing-that-could-provoke-a-vigorous-and-hostile-russian-response-w/1131428724346357/ (and there you have 90 miles of water between us)
We invaded an island 1,280 miles from our border because merely having the Russians build a runway they can use for their bombers and heavy lift assets was to much for us to accept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Grenada A little bit of history not in Wiki: This was financed by the Soviets, the money went through Nicaragua, and Cuban engineers were building it. An island with no real tourism or industry was building a runways capable of accommodating big bombers and transport planes.
Kennedy and Reagan were right!
I do not fault Reagan for invading an island 1,280 miles away at that time.
However, I also do not fault the Russian for being more than a little pissed off at us today. It’s us that wants to expand NATO into former Soviet Republics and Russian border states, who withdrew from the Ballistic Missile Treaty, violated Minsk, tries to violate Montreux, invaded Iraq under false pretenses (Russia aligned), attacked and invaded Syria (formal Russian ally with naval and air bases there since 1970), attacked Libya (Russian aligned), sponsored a coup and tried to overthrow the government in Venezuela (Russian aligned)...
I understand that your idea of patriotism and morality means that no matter what, ones nation is always right. Patriotism = brain off / waive a flag and do what some buffoon in a olive drab T-shirt that not to long ago was playing piano’s with his dick tells you.
Today, how we deal with Taiwan is very different than how we deal with Ukraine, both being in a similar situation. The difference is Russia is weak today, China is powerful. Russia has no economic value to us, in fact they are a competitor and we are trying to gobble up their frontier, while China has a huge economic value to us: they hold US securities, are a major consumer of US products and services, and a major manufacturing base for US HQ’ed firms. So you see a dichotomy in how we deal with these two situations, with China also by far being worse than Russia regards democracy, human rights, all these noble causes we like to throw around (but only when it’s convenient) ...
Corrected link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis
Lindsey Graham is as much your/Ukraine’s friend as a drug dealer is to someone addicted to their product.
He’s killing you, literally.
The interesting thing about patriotism and nationalism (which I very much think are good concepts to a degree) is that people which get wrapped up into these ideas, believe they alone speak for all, that they know better, that their contradictions, rationalizations for immorality, etc. are somehow justifiable. When you get to that point, you have “tunnel vision.”
People like me “thought the war was a good idea”?!!! You are touched the head.
The “unnecessary” war that Ukrainians are fighting is to preserve their culture, country, and their very lives. They are not fighting an unnecessary war. They are brave men fighting for their country and deserve support.
Russia and Ukraine are NOT divided by outside meddling. That is the most ridiculous of your repetitious preaching.
Stalin and Putin have worked to eradicate Ukrainian culture. Russian and Ukrainian cultures are vastly different. The Ukrainian language is closer to Polish than it is Russian even though Ukrainian is in Cyrillic and Polish uses Latin letters.
Think about all those Mohammedans, Buryats, and convicts that Russia sends to Ukraine. Think about all their atrocities which you in a cavalier fashion predict will permeate more and more of Ukraine. Think of those children Russia admits to shipping off to Russia. Think of those children made dead every day by Russia targeting civilian buildings (my brother-in-law’s apartment in Kharkiv was damaged on day 2 of the war and was close to no military target). Think of those far-flung gulag camps which have returned in full force.
And if by chance you really are some sort of American, think of the speaker of the Russian Duma speaking seriously about “reversing the illegal transfer of Alaska.”
no your just insignificant deep state mouthpiece spreading your crap like a cow in a field. The thing about propaganda is it’s always trying to outrun the truth.
Even if I were at least I am not a traitor supporting the enemies of this country.
lol. whatever
You never answered the question. Yes you caused this war by supporting a policy shift regards Ukraine which changed everything. Russia had some forces along the Ukraine border, but it wasn’t until our push for NATO expansion that Russia began moving troops to this area in large numbers, then conducting live fire training, and finally invading.
It all comes back to this: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/
Ukraine would not be fighting a war we’re it not for this.
Again, no major power accepts another playing on their border, we don’t, China doesn’t, Russia doesn’t.
I’m going to assume you have at least some basic military tactical and strategic thinking capabilities. For Russia Ukraine in NATO means:
1. A nation that can support a large scale and long term foreign force based there (they have the infrastructure and economy to support it).
2. Land tied to Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Hungary, all NATO members and with major roads and rail. Easy logistics.
3. A nation with deep water ports, major airfields that can support strategic bombers and strategic lift.
4. 1,400 miles of border, some of that with maneuver corridors where you could easily push a big armored mechanized force through.
5. Ukraine is very large, has forest and urban areas where things can be hidden.
6. North East Ukraine is 6 minutes of flight to Moscow for a modern hypersonic missile. No reaction time for Russia.
7. Russia has a large part of their nuclear deterrent forces in this same area where there is little reaction time and we could literally degrade their ability to retaliate in a first strike.
8. The US withdrew from the ballistic missile treaty and is building a missile defense system, which if based in Ukraine, which is very likely, could also potentially hinder Russia’s ability to react.
9. Russia and Ukraine share many large hardball roads and rail connections, if we made a move into Russia, we could use these to support our own logistics.
10. Russia is weak compared to their Cold War Soviet and Warsaw Pact posture. They are conventionally #5 on the worlds stage and in an large scale conventional conflict with the West the cards are stacked against them in (((every aspect))). All they really have is a nuclear deterrence to push us off them. That is why Russia is exerting the enormous effort they are to modernize, counter our missile defense, and keep a destructive parity with us. Their nuclear deterrence is the only hand they really have.
When you put someone in a position where you have to honestly say, I would do the same thing, then it’s just false outrage against them.
If we keep dicking around with them, eventually we might win the jackpot. God help us if our wet dream of destabilizing Russia actually happens. The world’s most powerful nuclear force going into chaos... What could possibly go wrong with that?!?!?
Both of these nations Ukraine and Russia have done nasty things to each other. Ukraine isn’t innocent. It’s Ukraine that employed vast numbers of mercenaries even before the war, why it was addressed in the Minsk treaty. The US Senate actually considered putting some of the units in Ukraine everyone in our government pretended to know nothing about on the terror list before the war...
Russia only began bringing Wagner and foreign fighters from the Middle East after wars begin.
49% of all Ukrainian’s have family in Russia. More than any other country: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians_in_Russia. You have to close both eyes and ears to pretend they aren’t related.
As to outside meddling, it’s sort of obvious, and you force me to be repetitive. You present zero facts, just make a statement and assume we all have to accept your claim. That’s not making an argument. We were picking who comes to power there, as the leaked Nuland tapes prove. We had a department of state spend $5 billion before Maiden (2014) to influence the political landscape in Ukraine, admitted by us. You had 12 secret CIA bases there, the NSA was operating there, you had military assistance, foreign aid (always with strings attached), our so called NGOs, our media and big tech (linked to the IC), even many of our big businesses operating there have to get clearance to do so and often are asked to coordinate with the department of state, DOD or CIA. And you want to tell us there was no foreign meddling!?!?! Are you trying to be funny?
Nuland bragged about how we were behind Maiden. Biden when VP bragged about “telling” the Ukrainian’s to fire one of their top state prosecutors: https://www.facebook.com/RepTroyNehls/videos/joe-biden-threatened-to-withhold-1-billion-to-ukraine-unless-the-ukrainian-prose/924535042400932/ And now you want to pretend we weren’t knee deep in their business!!!
It’s hard to stay objective and cool headed when it’s personal. I get it. That’s why divorce often becomes nasty... I also hope your relatives in Ukraine are well. Do not misunderstand me, I do not wish I’ll on Ukraine. It’s just a shitty situation which never should have happened.
The person who deserves credit for this mess is Biden, but the MSM won’t tear into him, and the uni-party Republicans refuse to tear into him unlike Obama did with Iraq. Biden so far has gotten a “get out of jail - free” card: https://img1.etsystatic.com/031/0/7080264/il_fullxfull.520911637_3727.jpg
The US in particular had been pumping Ukraine up with weapons, training, intel... since 2014 in large scale. Ukraine had become a formidable force and Russia knew that, they even commented on that.
The gamble: Given Ukraine's strength, is Russia really willing to pay such a high price to stop Ukraine accession into NATO through the use of military force, or will they acquiescence?
The problem in this gamble is that it made no sense, not from a Ukrainian perspective. Ukraine already had 95% of what you can ever dream of. EU membership was well under way, their military was strong, their economy was growing, they already were conducting training with NATO, already had foreign troops in their country training them, getting Western military hardware... Is it smart to risk everything for that 5%?
—Risk: risk = probability X magnitude. The probability was high, especially knowing that Russia prevented the same in the Republic of Georgia 2008 and Ukraine in 2014. The Russians aren't having this! The magnitude is unpredictable but extremely high, worse than in 2014 with Crimea. If the probability is high, and the magnitude is extremely high, risk is very high.
—Return On Investment: (ROI) didn't make sense. The truth is, Ukraine already had almost everything they can dream of, even massive Western military assistance... If you have very high risk but the return is really just marginal, ROI is out of whack.
High risk and low ROI = bad decision.
Unless of course Ukraine isn't the real objective.
IMHO, because Mr Z is a plant, he does what he's told to do, like a good Jumping-Jack: https://cdn.imago-images.com/bild/st/0100681467/m.jpg
It is us, the US, that is put in a bad position if you have EU expansion without a corresponding expansion of NATO. NATO is our club and we exercise a lot of influence in Europe through this organization.
If Mr. Z truly were independent, i.e. sovereign, and acting in the best interests of Ukraine, he would have passed on our October 2021 offer. When Mr. Z pushed ahead with NATO in October 2021, he was risking war, and tipped his hand. His actions were sort of telling who his master is.
The war is already over at this point. Russia achieved their political (No NATO) and military (seize the ethnic Russian areas, degrade Ukraine's armed forces) objectives. The comparisons to WWII are fairly accurate. It's like Germany in the winter of 44, holding on, but without any realistic chance of turning things around. It's just a matter of how many people we let die so that some political timeline (the US 2024 election cycle) is best served.
The outcome at this point is pretty much set: https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/36a7f6a6f5a9448496de641cf64bd375 What you see is likely what you're going to get. Things won't change much, except that Ukraine will lose more and more ground, a little bit at a time as time goes on. Again, what would make sense for Ukraine is to end this, but is the Mr Z really “sovereign” and acting only in the best interests of his people? Just like this war was needless, continuing this war post failed counteroffensive is needless, it's over. But a lot of people still need to die.
There are two scenarios I came up with (most probable and most dangerous), and it's looking like the most dangerous course of action is what will play out, we will procrastinate and drag this out until after our elections. If Trump wins, and he ends it, it looks bad for him, not Biden. If Biden wins, he will also end it, but the elections are over and if he ends it now, it would look like a failure, which it is. The reason why the most dangerous course of action is possible is because Ukraine has NOT become a major election issue thanks to a MSM that is very favorable to the Democrats/Biden, the uni-party Republicans, or those stuck in the past, that refuse to make this an opposition party issue. Biden is getting a "get out of jail free" card on this issue.
IMO, the posts may seem like ‘spam’ but they are directed and coordinated. Also, I believe most of them, one series in particular, are aimed at getting $$ via monetized links. Just an opinion....
There are no ethnic Russian areas of Ukraine. There are areas that are Russian speaking which is a big difference. My wife, from Alchevsk near Lughansk city is one of those Russian speakers and she, her friends, and family, are patriotic Ukrainians. Of course the Neo-Soviets, like the old Soviets love to move populations around as part of their cultural genocide. It is so nice of a Texan like you to talk down to Ukrainians about their own country. And how is it that a Texan buys into so many Moscow lies? Your cited causes of the war puts your insanity on display.
Liberate Alchevsk! Death to the invaders!
There are areas in Ukraine where the people speak Russian and they vote for the pro-Russian candidates, repeatedly. Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election Do you know why your nationalists are persecuting some Orthodox churches in Ukraine? What do you think?
Only when they are duped by a fraud like Mr. Z in 2019, who BTW promised peace (he just lied and had no history so we could invent who he is), do they support someone like that.
These people do not like the nationalists and there is a reason why your side had to send thugs like Azov (in part trained by us) into these regions, and why the Russians (military and FSB) today actually have to shield some of your hero’s from the public when they get arrested, since the locals want to club them in the streets.
—Do you want video of these “non-ethnic Russians” (sarc) in Eastern Ukraine wanting to club your glorious heroes?
—Do you want video of Ukrainians trying to fight recruiters as they attempt to force draft them? Some of these are amusing.
—How about video of Ukrainian troops setting up inside hospitals, on roof tops with ATGMs, or with artillery next to residential buildings with folks still in them?
The drone! It’s changing everything.
When this is over, and hopefully sooner rather than later, you will have a Ukraine that is a basket case economically, with a society that is on the verge of collapse within one generation (birth rate of 1.16, casualties, cripples and refugees: internal population has gone from 41 to 28 million) and ironically you are the one talking about preserving and saving Ukraine. This is a unnecessary war which will have lasting consequences and all those acting like your cheerleader today will have turned away, addressing the next big issue of the day.
What do you think is the probability of this: A comedian with zero political experience, little personal wealth, a Jew in a nation with a serious antisemitic undertone, rises to power like a phoenix and has the US MSM and big tech backing him 100%?
A true patriot, real nationalism, does not make you subordinate to foreign influence and lead you down a road of self-destruction.
There are almost always two sides to a story.
When you get tunnel vision and hit the mute button the solutions you get are almost always bad.
Human nature is pretty much universal and trying to make one side out as evil, or a madman, etc. is almost always crap.
The Cold War ended, there is no Soviet Union or Warsaw Pact and trying to construct arguments based on hyperbole and cliche, old “feelings” isn’t a real argument.
You jump through lots of hoops to ignore Putin’s own classic dictator words such as “Russia knows no borders” and his bemoaning of the breakup of the old Soviet Union. Putin is the aggressor. You admit you’ve never set foot in Ukraine and insist that you can tell people in the Donbas the real story from your vantage point in Texas and all your points are Moscow’s. What is it like to such a limp wrist that you will not visit the place you pretend to know all about.
On the day you wrote this Alchevsk (LPR), didn’t get liberated, but Orlovka did, by the Russians.
When you live in a fantasy and are no longer rooted in what is actually physically happening around you (AKA reality), that can have horrible consequences.
The longer this goes on, the worse it is for Ukraine.
You’ve never been there. You speak from pure ignorance. The Russians bring nothing but atrocities. You are a communist freak.
Address one single point, construct one single argument. Answer one single question. Reference yourself with a source once in a while...
Just throwing around victory slogans, repeating things that are known to be factually incorrect, calling people that disagree names or attacking them does you no good. It makes you look like a fool, frankly.
And if you can’t defend you position with rational arguments, consider that maybe things aren’t actually the way you fantasize them being.
Russia just had their elections.
When are the elections in Ukraine?
Having some loyalty to one side in this conflict, to the point where it blinds you regards what is best for the US, is not patriotic for us.
It’s not even the best for the Ukrainian’s who are to today left with a trashed nation.
What’s up with this? https://x.com/AleksanderDroz4/status/1770189057290551777?s=20
You would think they would put a lid on that after a little negative press (our MSM was very understanding).
Russia, with elections, private property, a thriving church is commie (commies are atheist) according to you. Government share of GDP in the US today is about the same as for Russia.
Ukraine with no elections, state control of the media, totally under our thumb, with suppression of religion, and with a systemic issue of swastika’s popping up is democratic, about human rights, and sovereign (the narrative sold in our MSM)?
I didn’t know Ukraine has outlawed elections.
On 22 May 2022 the Ukrainian parliament extended martial law for another 90 days and automatically renews from that point on.
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