Posted on 01/18/2024 6:01:26 AM PST by JSM_Liberty
It’s a very thorny issue, but the Bible is clear. God raised up Pharaoh to goad His people into wanting to leave Egypt. They had been comfortable there for hundreds of years, until the persecution began. They never would have left and sought the land God promised them, had they not been persecuted.
I believe God has allowed the Biden administration in order to expose evil in real time and in order to move us to want a more righteous government, not to mention that, like the Israelites, we will turn, and call on Him in our extremity. God’s chief aim always was and always will be redemption.
I’d say it’s more God’s Damnation instead of his Will. Damnation for succumbing to abortion, social media inanity, DEI victimology and leftist ideology.
Here’s the thing Mike. If you believe Christians are to embrace anyone in a position of authority according to scripture, then you believe the American Revolution was an act of disobedience toward God.
He did not say that.
To the contrary, to deny this is to be ignorant of Scripture, and of context, as Newsweek is (and most FReepers it seems).
He evoked scripture during his October 25 speech, saying: "The Bible is very clear that God is the one that raises up those in authority." "I said in my speech before I took the gavel that I am a Bible-believing Christian," Johnson responded. "A Bible-believing Christian believes what the Bible says, right? The Bible says that God is the one that raises up people in authority. I believe God is sovereign. By the way, so did the founders.
Which is wholly scriptural, yet which does not mean sanctioning the bad character of the elected, but as allowing such to be elected as a judgment against the country who did allow such, and as working out toward a greater purpose:
This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men. (Daniel 4:17)And if God did not let Hillary run for president, Trump would not have been elected.
God allowed Joseph (a far better character and faith than any modern president I know of) to be sold into slavery by his envious siblings, then framed, and then forgotten in prison, but which resulted in him rising to second in command of Egypt, to the salvation of his family and people.
But as for you [siblings], ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive. (Genesis 50:20)
Thus from the Newsweek page, its article is
And being an omniscient, omnipotent, infallible eternal being - who knows what all the effects will be of every action, and who can will make all to ultimately work out for what is Good, with justice as well as mercy, then finite, fallible and ultimately failing beings are in no position to judge them.
And which attributes renders Him as alone being worthy of being man's God - and thus the ultimate source of security and object of allegiance, and of spiritual affection - versus some finite created source.
There is lots of other scripture to support what I stated.
In the interest of time, and because I am only a Biblical student, and not a scholar, I plagiarize this from the wonderful WWW:
The Bible has a lot to say about governing authorities. In Romans 13:1, it says, “Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.” This means that God wants us to be obedient to Him and to the authorities. It is important to understand that God is the ultimate government, and as the creator of the universe, He reigns supreme. He makes the decisions and lays out our path. Our job is simply to follow Him. When humanity disobeyed God and was cast out of the Garden of Eden, a wall formed between us and God. As Adam and Eve first did, people chose to follow their own thinking. Many turned to wicked ways. By the time of Noah in Genesis 5, all on the earth were wicked, and God decided to send floodwaters, wipe out all life on the earth – with the exception of those on Noah’s ark – and start fresh with the righteous few. But there were always people, certain leaders, who God put in place to guide the people. He spoke to Joseph, and Joseph saved the Israelites—God’s people—from famine (Genesis 47). God spoke to Moses, and Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt toward the Promised Land (Exodus 13). God spoke to kings, and battles raged and cities toppled. In the Ten Commandments that He gave to Moses, God set Himself as the highest authority (Exodus 20:1-3), but also commanded us to honor and obey our father and mother so we “may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you” (Exodus 20:12). Here, God was establishing a natural hierarchy—He was Number One, and second we were to respect and listen to our elders. Blessings would follow if we did so. Later, God spoke to the people through His judges and prophets, such as Samuel. This was their natural system of government. But as Samuel grew older, the people began to clamor for a king to rule them, not a prophet, so they could be like the other nations (1 Samuel 8:5). This saddened Samuel, for he knew God’s people were not like the other nations; God as their king should have been enough. God warned them to be careful what they asked for, noting when they rejected God as their king they would get an earthly king who would take their sons, their daughters, their land, and the best of their fields, and they would beg for relief (1 Samuel 8:8-18). But the people insisted, so God gave them what they desired.
In summary, God wants us to be obedient to Him and to the authorities. He has put governing authorities in place to guide us, and we should respect and listen to them. However, we should also be careful not to put our trust in earthly leaders, but rather in God, who is the ultimate authority.
Likewise, those authorities are supposed to rule justly and in His will. If they do not, they no longer have God’s authority.
Yep-
He tackles the tough questions/accusations from unbelievers with an uncanny insight into the word of God and psychology of people-
His articles on the supposed “Cruelty of God for allowing (fill in the blank)” are worth studying- as are his articles on “Whether or not eternity in hell for the unsaved is just” and “How can a loving God send people to hell” which is a very common accusation/question by the unsaved- even some Christians have a hard time reconciling it- He tackles it with an impressive thought process-
A Few of his personal beliefs are perhaps a bit off (but nothing major that i have seen yet, just differences in certain issues that don’t make or break Christianity)- but the majority of his arguments are sound and biblical.
Wrong: there are no Scriptures that support the powers that be as not being ordained of God, only that God allows such in His will, (Romans 13:1) as being omniscient and whothus knows what every single effect will be, and as omnipotent, can and will make it all work out for what is Good, in both justice and mercy.
The only way Johnson's statement was a "stupid thing" for to say was by unwisely presuming the media would understand theology 101, versus rendering such as pearls given to swine. And thus imagine that something being "God's will" must means approval of character and ability, versus letting people vote bad characters into government. And which includes working to manipulate elections (including via redistricting and immigration), and hindering and preventing proper investigation, thus rendering the case unprovable in court.
Regardless of which, none of the elections in the past 20+ years should have even been close. It is is still government by the people, including via indirect means. And given that many sppsd "conservatives oppose making abortion an issue, then it is no wonder they oppose Johnson, whom I am surprised even made it this far in politics.
Did you read my post 88?
Do you believe that all tyrannical leaders in history were ‘ordained by God” as you put it?
If so then we have a huge disagreement.
You have seriously confused His will from His plan.
Mr. Speaker - unlike the Roman government, which was Paul's reference for submitting to authorities, we the American people are the authority in our form of government. In our system, the government "should be" subservient to the will of the people - not the other way around. What Mike didn't say and should have is that "Biden is illegitimate, evil, anti-Christian, anti-America/anti-American, anti-Constitution - and I'm (Mike) committed to having criminals like Biden removed from government and either executed or imprisoned for their crimes."
Very well said.
also:
“And if God did not let Hillary run for president, Trump would not have been elected.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So true.
And without the consequences created by Nazism, there would not have been any creation of Israel on May 14th, 1948.
Let’s think about this for a moment...
So far, so good. Likewise, those authorities are supposed to rule justly and in His will. If they do not, they no longer have God’s authority.
Which is absurd and contradictory, for Paul, for one, was writing to Christians under Roman civil rulers, who were hardly models of just rulership concerning Christian and Jews, besides morality, while the Lord Jesus enjoined obedience to the Jewish magisterium, (Mt. 23:2) which rejected and crucified Him!
Rather, the obedience to leadership which Roman 13, 1 Peter 2:13,14, Heb. 13:17 and other relevant verses enjoin are all conditional upon such not actually contradicting the word of God. Thus, faced with the command to kill make Hebrew newborns, "the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive." (Exodus 1:17 - and lied about it) "Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty." (Exodus 1:20)
And thus, faced with the command by the Jewish magisterium not to preach in the name of Jesus any more, "Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard." (Acts 4:19-20)
However, the American Revolution is actually harder to immediately justify, but since the NT church itself began in principle particular dissent (but based upon manifest Scriptural substantiation in word and in power) from those who sat in the seat of Moses, and as escaped slaves were not to be returned to their master, but allowed to dwell within Israel "where it liketh him best," without oppression, (Deuteronomy 23:15,) then how much more a grown son should be able to leave home. And as David fled from his oppressor Saul, then in principal support may be found for independence from an unreasonable, intractable oppressive ruler from over 3,000 miles away, by boat, but which was to England's long-term benefit, by the grace of God
.
And yet it was ok for David to flee from his oppressor Saul, then in principal support may be found for independence from an unreasonable, intractable oppressive ruler
You did not answer my very basic questions, which I will restate:
Do you believe that all tyrannical leaders in history were ‘ordained by God” as you put it?
Many Christians seem to think that they should “honor” tyrants because they are the authority in charge. I think they lose common sense; never bow to tyranny.
That’s why many conservative churches pray openly for Biden. A few will ask God to “save” Biden.
Unprepared and naive for not seeing that one coming with a ready reply that Joe was put in place by he who comes to Steal (elections), Kill (American servicemen in Afghanistan) and destroy (countries).
Then ask them "What do you think of my Christianity now?"
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