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U.S. and Ukraine Search for a New Strategy After Failed Counteroffensive
New York Times ^ | Dec. 11, 2023 | Julian E. Barnes, Eric Schmitt, David E. Sanger and Thomas Gibbons-Neff

Posted on 12/12/2023 12:47:45 AM PST by Mount Athos

The United States is stepping up the face-to-face military advice it provides to Ukraine, dispatching a three-star general to Kyiv to spend considerable time on the ground.

The Americans are pushing for a conservative strategy that focuses on holding the territory Ukraine has, digging in and building up supplies and forces over the course of the year.

The United States has given vast military and economic support to Ukraine, more than $111 billion over the past two years. But a significant number of Republicans now say they oppose further spending, and others are demanding to see a new strategy before they vote for any additional funds.

Many Ukrainian leaders do not realize how precarious continued U.S. funding for the war is, American officials said. These Ukrainian generals and senior civilian officials have unrealistic expectations about what the United States will supply, they said. They are asking for millions of rounds of artillery, for example, from Western stockpiles that do not exist.

The Russian military, after its own failed drive to Kyiv in 2022, has begun to reverse its fortunes and is rebuilding its might. Moscow now has more troops, ammunition and missiles, and has increased its firepower advantage with a fleet of battlefield drones, many of them supplied by Iran, according to American officials.

Ukrainian hospitals are already filled with injured soldiers. Ambulances moved back and forth from the front throughout this year’s counteroffensive. Ukraine has not released official numbers of its war dead, but the losses, officials concede, have been steep.

American officials are trying to prepare the Ukrainians for next year, telling them that whatever aid Congress approves is not likely to match the kind of funding that Washington provided in the first two years of the war.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Ukraine
KEYWORDS: bidenswar; davidesanger; ericschmitt; globalism; julianebarnes; needmoremoney; neoconsarefools; thomasgibbonsneff; tothelastukrainian
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To: Mount Athos

Here’s a new strategy: let’s take care of our own problems and our own border before getting involved in things that aren’t our problem.


21 posted on 12/12/2023 3:55:43 AM PST by GOPJ (Does Hannity have a DNC connected dominatrix feeding him questions? It would explain a lot.)
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To: Mount Athos

U.S. strategy is to keep sending Ukraine solders thru the meat grinder.


22 posted on 12/12/2023 4:13:06 AM PST by tennmountainman (FUJB)
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To: Mount Athos

Looking at the replies here I see the usual stuff, US is out of everything, can’t produce enough, need Ukraine to surrender to Putin to save Ukrainian lives…

Interesting how the “solution” only involves Ukraine giving, Putin not so much.

To begin, Putin can end this today, withdraw his troops.
Next, US is not the only producer, Europe, Korea and Ukraine to name a few
US shelves are empty, yup 31 abrams, several hundred Bradley’s and Strykers sent, O aircraft yup cupboard is bare /s

The issue was and is how and when weapons systems and the types/amounts were given.

Almost two years into the war and still no western aircraft with their capacities and capabilities. Short range atacms, cluster munitions given at the end of the offensive rather than at the beginning. Remember the 20’some helicopters destroyed by atacms, now imagine that happening last may. Imagine cluster munitions and the human wave attacks that were costly to the Russians but would have been 10 fold with these weapons. And there was no valid reason not to have given earlier.

The Russian invasion was stopped by a relatively small amount of western aid, himars and 777, javelins and a small amount of air defense checked Russian advances and resulted in Kharkiv and kherson successes.

What have the Russians accomplished since then, bloodbath to almost take bakmut and Andriyivka. Speaking in Ww2 terms, many here like to do , think the Wehrmacht would have been satisfied with those results.

All about “Ukranian” failures, would say 2nd largest military has failed, and the west has failed Ukraine by giving just enough to blunt the Russians, but not enough to defeat.

Again Kharkiv and Kherson were not “goodwill gestures”, the Russians were forced to do these withdrawals, and it would have been much worse for them if proper aid was given.

Militaries win wars, politicians lose wars

Go ahead flame away


23 posted on 12/12/2023 4:13:34 AM PST by blitz128
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To: caww

I searched Google for “Israel Ukraine”
And found no article confirming funding from Ukraine.

Please provide a link.


24 posted on 12/12/2023 4:16:29 AM PST by tennmountainman (FUJB)
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To: House Atreides

Vindman should be on the Front Lines in Ukraine.


25 posted on 12/12/2023 4:18:20 AM PST by tennmountainman (FUJB)
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To: tennmountainman

He’s referring to this.

https://www.voanews.com/a/imf-approves-900m-for-ukraine-zelenskyy-to-appeal-to-washington-lawmakers/7394172.html


26 posted on 12/12/2023 4:23:05 AM PST by FreedomForce
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To: House Atreides

Good question, where is Vinman’s sorry ass?


27 posted on 12/12/2023 4:53:15 AM PST by armourenthusiast (I capitalize everything related to South)
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To: Mount Athos
--- "US now sending Lt. Gen. Antonio A. Aguto Jr (3 star) to spend lengthy times in Kiev, directly advising Ukraine military leadership on an ongoing basis (summary in my own words). This is not a one time or temporary visit:

Austin Warns Congress Failing to Pass Ukraine Aid ‘Very Likely’ Leads to US Troops on the Ground In Europe Messenger, 5 December 2023

Lloyd Austin Threatens to Deploy Troops if Ukraine Aid is Shut Down American Greatness, 6 December 2023

28 posted on 12/12/2023 4:53:25 AM PST by Worldtraveler once upon a time (Degrow government)
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To: BobL

Good catch.


29 posted on 12/12/2023 6:38:50 AM PST by hinckley buzzard ( Resist the narrative.)
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To: tennmountainman

It wasn’t hard to find....

https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2023/12/11/pr23433-ukraine-2023-article-iv-consultation-and-the-second-review-under-the-eff-arrangement


30 posted on 12/12/2023 7:22:01 AM PST by caww (O death, when you seized my Lord, you lost your grip on me......)
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To: blitz128

“The Russian invasion was stopped by a relatively small amount of western aid, himars and 777, javelins and a small amount of air defense checked Russian advances and resulted in Kharkiv and kherson successes.”

Your timeline is way off. Those weapons didn’t show up until long after Ukraine stopped the Russian attack.


31 posted on 12/12/2023 7:36:32 AM PST by rxh4n1
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To: BobL

“NARRATIVE ALERT!!!! Note how the NY Times is now blaming Ukraine by stating it’s Ukraine’s war against Russia. For Ukraine’s sake, they better start reading the tea leaves, because they’re about to be cut loose to fight ‘their war’.”

As the NYT is the main Democrat media mouthpiece, this isn’t a good sign for Ukraine. They better make hay while the sun shines and start peace negotiations.


32 posted on 12/12/2023 7:40:37 AM PST by rxh4n1
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To: tennmountainman

Ukraine has no choice—they must use false flag attacks on NATO to get help—if they do not trigger article five in some way, they are finished by next Spring. Poland is the best target for a “Russian” attack—they would be quick to blame Putin. What could the CIA/MI6 do? Assassinate leaders? Launch a “poison Gas attack” on Warsaw? A germ bomb on Paris? a Nuke on Germany? Hit a Nuke plant in France? It must be horrible and must be blamed on Putin. If they fail—they war is over.


33 posted on 12/12/2023 8:14:54 AM PST by Forward the Light Brigade ( Ride to the sound of the Guns!)
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To: caww

Thank you for the link.


34 posted on 12/12/2023 8:36:33 AM PST by tennmountainman (FUJB)
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To: ArcadeQuarters

The Russian are already talking about saving other Russian speakers beginning with Latvia.


35 posted on 12/12/2023 8:52:21 AM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: Liz
<><>no more Biden admin fantasies WRT endlessly financing foreign wars

Last week, the US Embassy in Georgetown said the US military was to carry out joint training flights with Guyana as it faces rising tensions with Venezuela over a contested oil-rich region. It described the December 7 flights as a “routine engagement.”

36 posted on 12/12/2023 11:37:51 AM PST by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Re-imagine the media!)
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To: Mount Athos

How many times are we told they were so close to winning the war and Russia was almost defeated. I’ve lost count honestly. How about, you find a way for a truce, cease, fire, etc.


37 posted on 12/12/2023 11:57:04 AM PST by matt04 ( )
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To: matt04
How many times are we told they were so close to winning the war and Russia was almost defeated. I’ve lost count honestly. How about, you find a way for a truce, cease, fire, etc.

Where are the college kids protesting in the streets for a cease fire?

38 posted on 12/12/2023 11:57:43 AM PST by 1Old Pro
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas

Yeah sure......”routine.”

Biden is shopping for a winnable war
he can bring to his faltering campaign.


39 posted on 12/12/2023 1:17:34 PM PST by Liz (Women have tremendous power — their femininity, because men can't do without it. Sidney Sheldon)
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To: Liz

Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.


40 posted on 12/12/2023 2:12:25 PM PST by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Re-imagine the media!)
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