Posted on 10/29/2023 5:28:15 PM PDT by Macho MAGA Man
DC_Draino @DC_Draino
If Mike Pence had sent the fraudulent electoral college ballots back to state legislatures for further review on J6, he would not only go down in history as a courageous American Patriot, but he would also be the heir apparent to the MAGA movement and would be #1 in GOP primary polling right now for 2024
Instead he backstabbed 74 million Americans at the moment they needed him most
(Excerpt) Read more at twitter.com ...
I agree. It is just one of the reasons I subscribe to “The Deep State”. They all came out to deny him the Presidency, because he isn’t one of them.
Yet another post of total ignorance and absurd nonsense. The Vice President has absolutely zero authority to do what is proposed here, and there is no mechanism for which this can be done, either. Period. It is complete ignorance at best to keep saying this and dishonest at worst. The Constitution doesn't allow for this, the laws governing the process do not and did not allow for this, and certainly not the Congressional rules governing the process. Absolute, irrefutable fact.
Stop spamming the forum with this kind of ignorance and nonsense and use your mind and let reality and facts take hold for a change.
There is not, nor was there ever, any mechanism or power in the Constitution or laws or congressional rules giving the Vice President this kind of authority to “send it back” nor any mechanism for the States to have a do-over after they already sent in their Electors. Period. To say otherwise is ignorance at best or lying at worst. But in both cases it is embarrassing this keeps being claimed. The only mechanism by which the Electors could be blocked is if they are rejected and not counted. Congress chose not to do this. The Vice President has no such unilateral authority - if a motion for him to rule on was brought during the proceedings, but that would subject to appeal and override by the full Congress...but even so, no such mechanism or authority to do what is proposed exists, nor ever existed. There is no power for the Vice President to send electors back. There is no power or mechanism for state legislatures to redo their Electoral votes after they have been submitted to Congress. That all has to come before the fact, and none of the legislatures chose to do so. That is simple reality.
The clerk at motor vehicles just issues the drivers' licenses but can't reject a fraudulent application? The VP was empowered to reject fraudulent electoral votes constitutionally, so the Congress amended the law:Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act of 2022
In the real world, Pence was the equivalent of an emcee, serving in a ministerial role. He was to announce the vote result as reported to him by the tellers. He and the emcee of the Miss America contest equally decide who is the winner.
Thomas Jefferson assumed rather broad powers for himself in 1800. The 12th Amendment was proposed by Congress in 1803 and ratified in 1804 to eliminate the possibility of a recurrence. After shenanigans in 1876, Federal law was passed to further curtail the function of the President of the Senate at a joint session of Congress for a counting of the Electoral College vote. The Presiding Officer shall open all the envelopes for "all the certificates and papers purporting to be certificates of the electoral votes." Those will be passed to the tellers who will read and tally the votes, and report the tally to the Presiding Officer. The Presiding Officer shall announce the result as reported to him by the tellers.
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11641
Congressional Research Service
Informing the legislative debate since 1914
Updated October 22, 2020
The Electoral College: A 2020 Presidential Election Timeline
[excerpt]
January 6, 2021: Joint Session of Congress to Count Electoral Votes and Declare Election Results MeetsOn January 6, or another date set by law, the Senate and House of Representatives assemble at 1:00 p.m. in a joint session at the Capitol, in the House chamber, to count the electoral votes and declare the results (3 U.S.C. §15). The Vice President presides as President of the Senate. The Vice President opens the certificates and presents them to four tellers, two from each chamber. The tellers read and make a list of the returns. When the votes have been ascertained and counted, the tellers transmit them to the Vice President. If one of the tickets has received a majority of 270 or more electoral votes, the Vice President announces the results, which “shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the persons, if any, elected President and Vice President.”
Joint Session Challenges to Electoral Vote Returns
While the tellers announce the results, Members may object to the returns from any individual state as they are announced. Objections to individual state returns must be made in writing by at least one Member each of the Senate and House of Representatives. If an objection meets these requirements, the joint session recesses and the two houses separate and debate the question in their respective chambers for a maximum of two hours. The two houses then vote separately to accept or reject the objection. They then reassemble in joint session, and announce the results of their respective votes. An objection to a state's electoral vote must be approved by both houses in order for any contested votes to be excluded. For additional information, see CRS Report RL32717, Counting Electoral Votes: An Overview of Procedures at the Joint Session, Including Objections by Members of Congress, coordinated by Elizabeth Rybicki and L. Paige Whitaker. [13-page pdf]
Electoral Count Act of 1887, Pub.L. 49–90, 24 Stat 373 (3 Feb 1887)
https://www.loc.gov/law/help/statutes-at-large/49th-congress/session-2/c49s2ch90.pdf
FORTY-NINTH CONGRESS. Sess. II. Ch. 90. 1887.373
Feb. 3, 1887.
CHAP. 90.—An act to fix the day for the meeting of the electors of President and Vice-Presideut, and to provide for and regulate the counting of the votes for President and Vice-President, and the decision of questions arising thereon.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the electors of each State shall meet and give their votes on the second Monday in January next following their appointment, at such place in each State as the legislature of such State shall direct.
Sec. 2. That if any State shall have provided, by laws enacted prior to the day fixed for the appointment of the electors, for its final determination of any controversy or contest concerning the appointment of all or any of the electors of such State, by judicial or other methods or procedures, and such determination shall have been made at least six days before the time fixed for the meeting of the electors, such determination made pursuant to such law so existing on said day, and made at least six days prior to the said time of meeting of the electors, shall be conclusive, and shall govern in the counting of the electoral votes as provided in the Constitution, and as hereinafter regulated, so far as the ascertainment of the electors appointed by such State is concerned.
Sec. 3. That it shall be the duty of the executive of each State, as soon as practicable after the conclusion of the appointment of electors in such State, by the final ascertainment under and in pursuance of the laws of such State providing for such ascertainment, to communicate, under the seal of the State, to the Secretary of State of the United States, a certificate of such ascertainment of the electors appointed, setting forth the names of such electors and the canvass or other ascertainment under the laws of such State of the number of votes given or cast for each person for whose appointment any and all votes have been given or cast; and it shall also thereupon be the duty of the executive of each State to deliver to the electors of such State, on or before the day on which they are required by the preceding section to meet, the same certificate, in triplicate, under the seal of the State; and such certificate shall be inclosed and transmitted by the electors at the same time and in the same manner as is provided by law for transmitting by such electors to the seat of Government the lists of all persons voted for as President and of all persons voted for as Vice-President; and section one hundred and thirty-six of the Revised Statutes is hereby repealed; and if there shall have been any final determination in a State of a controversy or contest as provided for in section two of this act, it shall be the duty of the executive of such State, as soon as practicable after such determination, to communicate, under the seal of the State, to the Secretary of State of the United States, a certificate of such determination, in form and manner as the same shall have been made; and the Secretary of State of the United States, as soon as practicable after the receipt at the State Department of each of the certificates hereinbefore directed to be transmitted to the Secretary of State, shall publish, in such public newspaper as he shall designate, such certificates in full; and at the first meeting of Congress thereafter he shall transmit to the two Houses of Congress copies in full of each and every such certificate so received theretofore at the State Department.
Sec. 4. That Congress shall be in session on the second Wednesday in February succeeding every meeting of the electors. The Senate and House of Representatives shall meet in the Hall of the House of Representatives at the hour of one o’clock in the afternoon on that day, and the President of the Senate shall be their presiding officer. Two tellers shall be previously appointed on the part of the Senate and two on the part of the House of Representatives, to whom shall be handed, as they are opened by the President of the Senate, all the certificates and papers purporting to be certificates of the electoral votes, which certificates and papers shall be opened, presented, and acted upon in
374
FORTY-NINTH CONGRESS. Sess. II. Ch. 90. 1887.
the alphabetical order of the States, beginning with the letter A; and said tellers, having then read the same in the presence and hearing of the two Houses, shall make a list of the votes as they shall appear from the said certificates; and the votes having been ascertained and counted in the manner and according to the rules in this act provided, the result of the same shall be delivered to the President of the Senate, who shall thereupon announce the state of the vote, which announcement shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the persons, if any, elected President and Vice-President of the United States, and, together with a list of the votes, be entered on the Journals of the two Houses. Upon such reading of any such certificate or paper, the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any. Every objection shall be made in writing, and shall state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof, and shall be signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives before the same shall be received. When all objections so made to any vote or paper from a State shall have been received and read, the Senate shall thereupon withdraw, and such objections shall be submitted to the Senate for its decision; and the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, in like manner, submit such objections to the House of Representatives for its decision; and no electoral vote or votes from any State which shall have been regularly given by electors whose appointment has been lawfully certified to according to section three of this act from which but one return has been received shall be rejected, but the two Houses concurrently may reject the vote or votes when they agree that such vote or votes have not been so regularly given by electors whose appointment has been so certified. If more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State shall have been received by the President of the Senate, those votes, and those only, shall be counted which shall have been regularly given by the electors who are shown by the determination mentioned in section two of this act to have been appointed, if the determination in said section provided for shall have been made, or by such successors or substitutes, in case of a vacancy in the board of electors so ascertained, as have been appointed to fill such vacancy in the mode provided by the laws of the State; but in case there shall arise the question which of two or more of such State authorities determining what electors have been appointed, as mentioned in section two of this act, is the lawful tribunal of such State, the votes regularly given of those electors, and those only, of such State shall be counted whose title as electors the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide is supported by the decision of such State so authorized by its laws; and in such case of more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State, if there shall have been no such determination of the question in the State aforesaid, then those votes, and those only, shall be counted which the two Houses shall concurrently decide were cast by lawful electors appointed in accordance with the laws of the State, unless the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide such votes not to be the lawful votes of the legally appointed electors of such State. But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such votes, then, and in that case, the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the Executive of the State, under the seal thereof, shall be counted. When the two Houses have voted, they shall immediately again meet, and the presiding officer shall then announce the decision of the questions submitted. No votes or papers from any other State shall be acted upon until the objections previously made to the votes or papers from any State shall have been finally disposed of.
Sec. 5. That while the two Houses shall be in meeting as provided in this act the President of the Senate shall have power to preserve order; and no debate shall be allowed and no question shall be put by the presiding officer except to either House on a motion to withdraw.
375
FORTY-NINTH CONGRESS. Sess. II. Chs. 90,91. 1887.
Sec. 6. That when the two Houses separate to decide upon an objection that may have been made to the counting of any electoral vote or votes from any State, or other question arising in the matter, each Senator and Representative may speak to such objection or question five minutes, and not more than once; but after such debate shall have lasted two hours it shall be the duty of the presiding officer of each House to put the main question without further debate.
Sec. 7. That at such joint meeting of the two Houses seats shall be provided as follows: For the President of the Senate, the Speaker’s chair for the Speaker, immediately upon his left; the Senators, in the body of the Hall upon the right of the presiding officer; for the Representatives, in the body of the Hall not provided for the Senators; for the tellers, Secretary of the Senate, and Clerk of the House of Represen tatives, at the Clerk’s desk; for the other officers of the two Houses, in front of the Clerk’s desk and upon each side of the Speaker’s platform. Such joint meeting shall not be dissolved until the count of electoral votes shall be completed and the result declared; and no recess shall be taken unless a question shall have arisen in regard to counting any such votes, or otherwise under this act, in which case it shall be competent for either House, acting separately, in the manner hereinbefore provided, to direct a recess of such House not beyond the next calendar day, Sunday excepted, at the hour of ten o’clock in the forenoon. But if the counting of the electoral votes and the declaration of the result shall not have been completed before the fifth calendar day next after such first meeting of the two Houses, no further or other recess shall be taken by either House.
Approved, February 3, 1887.
They had nearly 2 months for that. Regardless, there is no do-over mechanism in the Constitution and no power to a VP to “send it back”, and even if there was for the sake of argument, this would have been overridden by a motion from the floor. The Constitution says the VP “shall” count the Electors. That’s it for him. Only if Congress rejects Electors so they are not there to be counted does it change the total. He can rule as the President of the Senate presiding of the county on parliamentary matters, but again, any of his rulings could be overturned by motion from the floor.
Fantasy world trying to come up with something to have stopped what occurred and creating a villain to blame it on.
Would have been better if those watchers that got kicked out and then had the windows taped, were to throw a few chairs through those windows, and get back into the game.
Completely relevant since their power over that is plenary under the Constitution.
Are you claiming that the President of the Senate can order State Legislatures into session, and can command their agendas? No, but nice straw man.
Nope, not even close to what he said at all. You are the one creating an argument that was not made so you can then "refute" something never said - quite obvious that is not what he said nor the point he was making.
The point is that the VP as constitutional administrator of the electoral vote count can reject obvious fraud, just as the motor vehicle clerk can reject a fake birth certificate from a 14 year old who applied for a driver's license. The 2022 law confirms that Pence as VPOTUS had that power, but declined to exercise it.
Absolute fiction. No mechanism or power exists under the Constitution, laws governing the process, nor Congressional rules allowed for that at the time nor ever before. Otherwise you would be able to cite these mechanisms in the Constitution and laws which govern said process...you can't, because it doesn't exist. Likewise, you cannot cite where the Vice President has or ever had said powers in the Constitution or law because it does not and never existed. You just keep making up fictitious powers and assigning them to the VP and then say Pence failed to exercise powers that don't exist.
Yes, Congress - if electors are rejected, the VP cannot have them counted. Congress did not reject any electors this time. Perhaps they should have, but they did not.
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4133096/posts#3
The “election” alleged to be fraudulent has no Constitutional existence. The 50 State Legislatures which appoint 535 Electors (and Congress, which appoints 3) have all adopted the custom of having people voting as the means by which the appointments are normally made, but this creates 51 elections, not one.
Those 51 elections occur at the direction of, and are subservient to, 50 legislatures and Congress. The States unwisely granted Congress 3 Electors by ratifying the XXIII Amendment in 1960, so Congress does have supervisory power OVER THOSE THREE, but not otherwise.
There is only one Presidential election in the Constitution, it takes place in December, there are 538 voters, and in December 2020 Biden got 306 of them and was elected President.
No State Legislature objected that its Electors were not the ones they had appointed. No State Legislature even convened to consider the matter. In the case of Pennsylvania, the Legislature fled to avoid considering the matter.
It has never been alleged that a single one of the 306 votes for Biden/Harris was a forgery, that the Electors who casted them were impersonating someone else, or that the Legislatures had secretly appointed other Electors.
There is zero space for an allegation of fraud in the Constitutional Presidential election of December 14, 2020.
As far as the 51 elections which occurred on November 3, 2020, they may very well have been rife with fraud, but since the appointment power of the 50 State Legislatures (535) and Congress (3) is plenary, that’s a problem for those legislatures to deal with should they choose to do so.
Take your trolling ass out of here.
We don’t like your kind here.
Only problem is ,he was a deep state plant.
-Pence did have to sign off on it didn’t he? If that’s the case ,he could have just said no .
You have posted this nonsense repeatedly and I have debunked it every time I see it. Pennsylvania did no such thing. A group of fewer than a dozen legislators — out of more than 250 in the state — signed a letter asking Congress not to accept the electors at face value. Nobody acting in any official capacity on behalf of the state of Pennsylvania ever asked to have the state’s “ballots to be returned.”
Nice try, Rat.
3 U.S.C. United States Code, 2014 Edition Title 3 - THE PRESIDENT CHAPTER 1 - PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS AND VACANCIES Sec. 15 - Counting electoral votes in Congress From the U.S. Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov §15. Counting electoral votes in Congress Congress shall be in session on the sixth day of January succeeding every meeting of the electors. The Senate and House of Representatives shall meet in the Hall of the House of Representatives at the hour of 1 o'clock in the afternoon on that day, and the President of the Senate shall be their presiding officer. Two tellers shall be previously appointed on the part of the Senate and two on the part of the House of Representatives, to whom shall be handed, as they are opened by the President of the Senate, all the certificates and papers purporting to be certificates of the electoral votes, which certificates and papers shall be opened, presented, and acted upon in the alphabetical order of the States, beginning with the letter A; and said tellers, having then read the same in the presence and hearing of the two Houses, shall make a list of the votes as they shall appear from the said certificates; and the votes having been ascertained and counted according to the rules in this subchapter provided, the result of the same shall be delivered to the President of the Senate, who shall thereupon announce the state of the vote, which announcement shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the persons, if any, elected President and Vice President of the United States, and, together with a list of the votes, be entered on the Journals of the two Houses. Upon such reading of any such certificate or paper, the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any. Every objection shall be made in writing, and shall state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof, and shall be signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives before the same shall be received. When all objections so made to any vote or paper from a State shall have been received and read, the Senate shall thereupon withdraw, and such objections shall be submitted to the Senate for its decision; and the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, in like manner, submit such objections to the House of Representatives for its decision; and no electoral vote or votes from any State which shall have been regularly given by electors whose appointment has been lawfully certified to according to section 6 of this title from which but one return has been received shall be rejected, but the two Houses concurrently may reject the vote or votes when they agree that such vote or votes have not been so regularly given by electors whose appointment has been so certified. If more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State shall have been received by the President of the Senate, those votes, and those only, shall be counted which shall have been regularly given by the electors who are shown by the determination mentioned in section 5 of this title to have been appointed, if the determination in said section provided for shall have been made, or by such successors or substitutes, in case of a vacancy in the board of electors so ascertained, as have been appointed to fill such vacancy in the mode provided by the laws of the State; but in case there shall arise the question which of two or more of such State authorities determining what electors have been appointed, as mentioned in section 5 of this title, is the lawful tribunal of such State, the votes regularly given of those electors, and those only, of such State shall be counted whose title as electors the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide is supported by the decision of such State so authorized by its law; and in such case of more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State, if there shall have been no such determination of the question in the State aforesaid, then those votes, and those only, shall be counted which the two Houses shall concurrently decide were cast by lawful electors appointed in accordance with the laws of the State, unless the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide such votes not to be the lawful votes of the legally appointed electors of such State. But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such votes, then, and in that case, the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the executive of the State, under the seal thereof, shall be counted. When the two Houses have voted, they shall immediately again meet, and the presiding officer shall then announce the decision of the questions submitted. No votes or papers from any other State shall be acted upon until the objections previously made to the votes or papers from any State shall have been finally disposed of. (June 25, 1948, ch. 644, 62 Stat. 675.) Counting of Electoral Votes 2013—Pub. L. 112–228, §1, Dec. 28, 2012, 126 Stat. 1610, provided that: "The meeting of the Senate and House of Representatives to be held in January 2013 pursuant to section 15 of title 3, United States Code, to count the electoral votes for President and Vice President cast by the electors in December 2012 shall be held on January 4, 2013 (rather than on the date specified in the first sentence of that section)." 2009—Pub. L. 110–430, §2, Oct. 15, 2008, 122 Stat. 4846, provided that: "The meeting of the Senate and House of Representatives to be held in January 2009 pursuant to section 15 of title 3, United States Code, to count the electoral votes for President and Vice President cast by the electors in December 2008 shall be held on January 8, 2009 (rather than on the date specified in the first sentence of that section)." 1997—Pub. L. 104–296, §2, Oct. 11, 1996, 110 Stat. 3558, provided that: "The meeting of the Senate and House of Representatives to be held in January 1997 pursuant to section 15 of title 3, United States Code, to count the electoral votes for President and Vice President cast by the electors in December 1996 shall be held on January 9, 1997 (rather than on the date specified in the first sentence of that section)." 1989—Pub. L. 100–646, Nov. 9, 1988, 102 Stat. 3341,
You sound like one of those corruption deniers who believe Washington runs like it was designed to, laws are passed the same way they always have, politicians want what’s best for us and the media tells the truth. Corruption deniers like you are very dangerous and weird people.
I call BS on your post retard... Since you like childish names:
The Process
Certifying the election results is the final phase before the inauguration. The Congressional Research Service’s (CRS) current interpretation of the Act is as follows:
“Objections to individual state returns must be made in writing by at least one Member each of the Senate and House of Representatives. If an objection meets these requirements, the joint session recesses and the two houses separate and debate the question...The two houses then vote separately to accept or reject the objection. They then reassemble in [a] joint session, and announce the results of their respective votes. An objection to a state’s electoral vote must be approved by both houses in order for any contested votes to be excluded”.
There can be no general objection to the election results; it must be done on a state-by-state basis. The need for a member of each house to support an objection ensures it is legitimate.
This interpretation by the CRS provides a clear outline of the process, but the Act is constructed with ambiguous language, calling into question its legislative authority. The complexity and poor drafting have made this process a target of significant criticism as people feel it further removes the American people from the election process. However, this criticism does not approach the issue correctly. The Act was designed to protect the United States election process from corruption. If concerns are raised in the two months following the general election, this gives an opportunity to review those claims and ensure incorruptibility.
During the 2020 election, the process was delayed during the the Jan 6th 2020 protest (I didn’t say riot or insurrection because it was a protest nothing more).
Republican lawmakers objected to the results on the grounds of voter fraud and called for an audit of the results. Of the objections raised, only two states – Arizona and Pennsylvania – had support from the House and Senate, which required the bodies to meet separately and debate the objections. Both objections were unsuccessful and Biden was declared the victor.
Deal with reality
Additionally..
Objections only work if there’s support from both a senator and a representative.
Under the Electoral Count Act, a petitioner from both the House and Senate are required to challenge a state’s slate of electoral votes, and the objection must be in writing.
10:25 p.m. ET, January 6, 2021
The Senate just rejected an objection to Arizona’s electoral vote.
10:25 p.m. ET, January 6, 2021
Senate rejects objection to Arizona electoral vote.
The votes were not on Trump’s side unfortunately.
Since Democrats controlled the House and enough Republicans in both the House and Senate accepted that Trump lost the election it was irrelevant.
It has been reported that Pence was bought off by the establishment GOP. Backstab Trump and we’ll fund your campaign.True? I don’t know.
If you look at Pence as Governor in Indiana, it’s perfectly clear he is the kind of guy to not make waves or headlines. Typical establishment stooge.
Pence was to Trump what George HW Bush was to Reagan.
“there is no do-over mechanism in the Constitution and no power to a VP to “send it back”,”
And many Conditional Lawyers have a different opinion. You’re entitled to your TDS opinion.
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