Posted on 10/22/2023 7:04:29 AM PDT by CFW
ROCK SPRINGS — The tenant of a downtown Rock Springs embroidery shop recently requested permission to open a coffee shop in the same space but was denied because of the city’s fire code regulations.
Now the business, Nell’s Coffee at 204 Elk St., has closed and moved to a new location at 1100 Elk St. The 204 Elk St. building’s owner Rick Milonas has taken the city to task over its building code that forced the move. In July, he threatened to sue the city over it.
Milonas said it would cost $500,000 to add fire sprinklers and bring the 6,400-square-foot, 90-year-old building up to code as is required for restaurants.
Milonas believes he is being singled out and treated unfairly and argues that businesses in numerous other Rock Springs buildings are also out of compliance with the fire code.
[snip]
“About $150,000 seems to be the average cost to install fire sprinklers,” he said. “We have a bunch of landlords who have not and do not want to put money into old buildings. Most coffee shops don’t make sprinkler system money. It’s a huge challenge for the city.”
Mickelson added that his initial reaction was to find a way to use the grandfather clause to remedy the situation. However, Rock Springs Fire Department officials pointed out several instances of large building fires with multiple fatalities in other states.
Using the grandfather clause as a work-around in this case presents too much risk for the city, he said.
(Excerpt) Read more at cowboystatedaily.com ...
50K to the right local government thug woulda taken care of the entire problem.
there’s a guy named Louis...mebbe Tony.. around somewhere...probably could give lessons about how that works.
“I’m not asking for a lot, just enough to wet my beak”
In my area coffee shops are in van conversions or drive-by shacks in dolled-up storage sheds because that’s what is affordable. There are also multiple food-serving van conversions, serving Thai, Mexican, Italian and other styles of food. Working around govt has always required creativity. My area also has a pedicab company, and horse-drawn wagons to transport tourists to our 30+ vineyards. The tourists love all that.
A fire sprinkler system for 6400 SF might cost 20k. The whole issue is if there is sufficient public water on that block. There would have to be a whole lot of issues to hit 150k.
This is a case where basic tenant use of the building changed. Could have put a food truck/ coffee trailer parked in front if there was a desire to stay.
Not a big government regulation guy here, but that city’s building code is not the problem. Old buildings past their expiration dates that are now becoming Historic Buildings is the problem .
Not all cute buildings should become coffeehouses. Serve alcohol and not food.Turn it into a hair salon.
Embroidery shops burn down when the business next door catches on fire.
Landlord trying to change function without expenses
(Actually know a similar circumstance here in small town western Colorado, with a coffee shop in an old drugstore building)
> Government regulations crush small business growth and contributes to the decline of our nation’s economy. <
Two young black guys opened a deli about a mile from where I live. I stopped in soon after it opened. There was a nice menu and many tables, but no chairs.
I asked one of the owners why there weren’t any chairs. After all, who wants to eat standing up? The owner said it was a government regulation. He could only put in chairs if he first installed a handicapped bathroom, something he couldn’t afford. So no chairs.
And also no business. The place closed about six weeks after that.
Oh, and is important to mention that the owners were two black guys? Yes. They tried to do the right thing, open a small business to support their families. And the government destroyed their dreams, for no good reason.
Rock Springs, Wyoming? Fire codes? We have hit rock bottom. Used to be Rock Springs was the wild west or at least close to it.
I believe Starbucks has built its entire business model on working around local health and zoning codes. Their on-site food preparation processes don’t require ovens or grills, so they are generally classified as a “food retailer” and not a “restaurant” under municipal codes.
[ Used to be Rock Springs was the wild west ...]
Bandits and rustlers are entitled to coffee while waiting for their embroidery to be finished, just like law abiding folks.
> I feel bad for those guys, but it sounds like they really didn’t do a good job of researching the legal requirements before opening the business. <
I wish I would have asked them about that. Did they not do enough research first? Or did they think they could make a go of it with tables but no chairs?
Anyway, the whole thing is ridiculous. Why would the government link a handicapped rest room with chairs in the dining room? It makes no sense.
But then again, we are talking about the government here.
My guess is that without the chairs, the place is legally considered a 100% take-out and delivery establishment. The tables mean nothing. I’m assuming the law is based on the seating arrangements.
People who want to open small businesses often have limited experience with safety issues, and are focused on looks, functionality, and making money — all reasonable objectives.
Fire Departments and Building Officials have studied what causes disasters, fires, collapses, injuries, deaths, and destruction. Building codes are what they are because of eons of collected experience, product testing, etc. Context (how close are other structures, what are they made of, what are their uses and occupant densities?) and the fire department’s capabilities have to be considered in an urban setting. The prohibitions these impose are the difference in a safe, first-world existence, and the dangers of the third-world.
In this case, the property owner would like to make more/spend less by throwing caution to the winds, thus putting lives and neighboring properties at higher risk. Freedom within a “civilized society” requires responsibility, plus checks & balances.
I’m guessing no chairs means a take-out only establishment and no need for public restrooms. Germany had lots of small take-out shops called Imbiss. They were little more than an alcove to get out of the weather. They just had a ledge around the wall to eat at but no chairs to sit in. They could do plenty of business.
> My guess is that without the chairs, the place is legally considered a 100% take-out and delivery establishment. <
Thanks for the replies, folks. That makes sense. Another mystery solved!
I deal with many of the things discussed in the article and thread frequently in my line of work. My suspicion is that the proposed use of the space triggered a general requirement to upgrade or expand an existing bathroom — or maybe even add a second bathroom. And the bathroom requirement meant that the new bathroom had to be ADA-compliant as a matter of law, not that there was something about the deli operation itself that made wheelchair accessibility necessary.
I had a situation in a client’s office building. One of his new tenants was doing a remodeling project that required them to relocate an existing bathroom ten feet along the same wall. The previous bathroom had been constructed in the late 1980s before the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) was passed. By moving the bathroom the tenant had to make it somewhat larger to accommodate the required ADA accessibility features.
Politicians come and go, but entrenched bureaucrats are here forever. It is their job to make up regulations. They don’t have to be good regulations, just more regulations. There should not be such a thing as a 30 year bureaucrat. All regulations should be revisited every ten years or so.
And Fire Departments and Building Officials often have limited experience with opening and operating a small business. Which requires an unreasonable amount of time and effort be expended simply to be in Government Compliance.
Yes, public safety is/should be a concern. But I personally have found that blanket one-size-fits-all policies (codes) written by government “Experts” are usually unreasonable.
Sorry, but I am just not on board the “Thank God the Government is here to keep us safe!” train.
Regards,
Yeah I’m not understanding who the customer base would be. What you suggested or old cowboys who want to learn a new skill. I’ve never thought about alcohol while contemplating my thread choices.
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