Posted on 08/24/2023 4:34:15 PM PDT by FarCenter
A new fossil ape from an 8.7-million-year-old site in Türkiye is challenging long-accepted ideas of human origins and adding weight to the theory that the ancestors of African apes and humans evolved in Europe before migrating to Africa between nine and seven million years ago.
Analysis of a newly identified ape named Anadoluvius turkae recovered from the Çorakyerler fossil locality near Çankırı with the support of the Ministry of Culture and Tourism in Türkiye, shows Mediterranean fossil apes are diverse and are part of the first known radiation of early hominines—the group that includes African apes (chimpanzees, bonobos and gorillas), humans and their fossil ancestors.
The findings are described in a study published today in Communications Biology co-authored by an international team of researchers led by Professor David Begun at the University of Toronto (U of T) and Professor Ayla Sevim Erol at Ankara University.
"Our findings further suggest that hominines not only evolved in western and central Europe but spent over five million years evolving there and spreading to the eastern Mediterranean before eventually dispersing into Africa, probably as a consequence of changing environments and diminishing forests," said Begun, professor in the Department of Anthropology in the Faculty of Arts & Science at U of T. "The members of this radiation to which Anadoluvius belongs are currently only identified in Europe and Anatolia."
(Excerpt) Read more at phys.org ...
Clearly, that is quite obvious.
One only needs to read the Bell Curve to understand Herrnstein and Murray's explanation of why that is so true.
“But the one thing evolution cannot explain is why and how each time one homo species came about the previous homo species just disappeared almost immediately in the relative time line. Even inbreeding and hybridization does not explain this fact. Each species in the chain had an expiration date to make room for the newer more advanced modified model.”
And all of them shared DNA. Why did some of them disappear and some of them didn’t? Take, for example, the Neandertals (who principally roamed Europe): They “disappeared” about 40,000 years ago. And what happened around that time? An Ice Age that affected the northern latitudes, including Europe. It’s very hard for some species of life to adapt to such sudden climactic changes (which have always been visited upon the earth, and they have nothing to do with Man; because according to the geologic record such changes pre-date Man, and later appear concurrently WITH Man). Ice Ages generally result in the destruction of available food sources. So, what to do? Adapt, migrate, or die. In other words, evolution.
Previously in this thread the the evolutionists have been speaking of the physical realm alone, but now you are bringing in the topic of "salvation" that extends beyond the natural sphere. p>There are three kinds of death (= non-functional):
(1) physical death: biological, inability to put delf-preservational or abstract emotional ideological issues into practice in the mass/dimensional/time-dimensioned temporal and tangible activityTo which of these deaths are you referring? The physical (bios and psukikos), or the spiritual (pneumatikos), or the eternal sense (zoay)?(2) Spiritual death; inability to ideate or communicate or receive and/or project concepts in the spiritual dimension with entities that exist in that supernatural realm, yet retain self-awareness of existence apart from the physical body
(3) Eternal death (deuteros thanatos in the Gk): a never-ending reunion of the dead soul and spirit with an irreversibly corrupted body with its continually felt pain of its decayd flsh and agony of uninterrupted aloneness
Regarding a human's reinstatement to the spiritual and eternal life once possessed by Adam, it is based solely on one's full unreserved unchangeable confidence that the biblical God exists and is utterly able to perform whatever He has told of and promised.
Since Adam's time, according to the account dictated to Moses, written by him, and recapitulated by Paul (Romans 4:20-21), some have achieved this state prior to physical death. But only a few antediluvian humans (eight) through faith in God believed in the coming inundation, using the tools and methods developed by the centuries-aged artisans, survived the global deluge.
It was from those blessed survivors whose already degenerated DNA all modern humans descended. But, having lost the tools and arts of civilization, within a few years after their landing began again resisting God and reasoning wwithout His participation, for which He confused their languages and scattered them throughout the earth.
No longer having the age-old arts nor the ability to recover them, they became decadent, not "primitive," dwelling in caves, sustained by hunting rather than agrarian with no time to become more technical, telling their stories verbal and by rock-art, no alphabet, no way to write a history.
This is what I believe in as a degreed scientist in the philosophy and accumulated technology. You may believe in what you want, but only you will have to face your own consequences of it.
I will take the scriptural record of the supernatural Trinitarian God as my counsel from Moses (Deuteronomy 8:3) and from the Gospel-writers of a Jesus who used that principle (Matther/Levi 4:4; Luke 4:4).
Here’s a theory: maybe you find the oldest fossils in the areas that never got scraped clean by glaciers because they never got scraped clean by glaciers, not because there were never any fossils as old anywhere else :)
“I want to believe when we die we spend forever in peace.”
Yeah; me, too.
“But as I age and see how reality is an emergent property of physics...It’s hard.”
You are a good example of free will and intellect created by God (the term I choose to use; but any term or identity is just as valid: The SOURCE — by whatever name — is what’s important; not the name). And you are using that gift by seeking and questioning that which you see and don’t see; believe and don’t believe; know and don’t know. You are doing EXACTLY what the SOURCE (GOD) expects of you. Keep up the work.
“I don’t believe in any Jesus but maybe there is something more?”
I do believe in Jesus. But, again, that is not a condemnation of those who don’t. Some of the worst people who ever lived believed in Jesus; and some of the best didn’t.
As the old saying goes: It will all come out in the wash.
“Here’s a theory: maybe you find the oldest fossils in the areas that never got scraped clean by glaciers because they never got scraped clean by glaciers, not because there were never any fossils as old anywhere else :)”
The evolution hypothesis must necessarily be dependent on evidence found in fossils. And, who knows? Perhaps the “Answer” to the great mystery lies beneath a two-mile thick glacier.
That’s why we have hypotheses (i.e., working theories).
It all ends when we’re banned on fr for doubting the power of prayer.
You only share a small part of the full stories and bigger picture.
And for both where did their gods originate from? Look into the Wandjina creation myths of the Aborigines and compare them with the Sumerian. And the creation myths of many Native Americans, some African tribes such as the Dogon, the Hindu, and many others.
“Myths” being the operative word. Makes for some entertaining reading.
Such is the stuff of belief.
Eventually, the truth will come out.
It’s from faith facts
I have found that metaphorically there is truth in myth. Far too many “coincidences” of knowledge the ancients had that they should have never understood.
“I have found that metaphorically there is truth in myth.”
There is symbolism.
Nope.
1 Corinthians 2:10-16 (AV)( bolding added for emphasis)I m not a "kid," .06. And you are employing human wisdom of a nature that cannot compare with Spirit-inspired scripture and wise interpretation of it.10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12Now wethe spiritually mature have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14But the naturalpsuchikos, logical (hu)man receiveth not the deepthingsv. 10 of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that hethe teacher may instruct himthe soulish natural unbeliever? But wespiritually mature teachers have the mind of Christ. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of Godindweling and guiding the regenerated servant of Christ.
-----------
Philippians 2:5-6 (AV)5Leta command which must be obeyed this mind be in youspiritually regenerated persons, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
ought-six: Thus, you are saying that there was no death prior to man; but because of man, death came upon the world (i.e., man is the sole cause of death and bears sole responsibility for death).
Yep.
And that is what the Holy Scripture is written about for your benefit, and the God-Incarnate Human Person Who is the Conqueror of it. Take this spiritual wisdom under advisement or (foolishly) ignore and leave it.
Up to you.
You've been warned.
“The evolution hypothesis must necessarily be dependent on evidence found in fossils.”
Which is a primary weakness of forensic-type speculative “science” as opposed to the harder, experimental varieties. You have no control over what evidence you will find, and you cannot know how much evidence you are missing.
“There is symbolism.”
Yep, absolutely, that too.
“You’ve been warned.”
Fanatacism is a deadly emotion. In the 15th, 16th, and 17th centuries religious fanatics burned those who dared hold a view different from theirs.
“And you are employing human wisdom of a nature that cannot compare with Spirit-inspired scripture and wise interpretation of it.”
Spirit-inspired scripture? Do you mean the bloodlust and carnage and slaughter that runs rampant through the Old Testament? Bloodlust and carnage and slaughter allegedly ordained by a just God? Don’t you see the hypocrisy?
Scripture was penned by men, imperfect men, with their own biases and agendas. They libeled and slandered God more than praised Him.
Quote your scripture to someone else.
“Which is a primary weakness of forensic-type speculative ‘science’ as opposed to the harder, experimental varieties.”
ALL science is speculative and experimental until there is no challenge to it. But, even at that, so-called “settled science” is anything but.
That some applications work within the constraints and parameters we know, that does not mean those applications are, in fact, the Omega.
All myth is symbolism, in that they are based in parables and allegories and dream sequences.
“ALL science is speculative and experimental until there is no challenge to it.”
No, that’s not true. There are entire fields of science for which most of their propositions are beyond the ability of experiment to verify. For example, what experiment could verify that geological strata are laid down in the manner and on the timeline that scientists have speculated that they are? Since that timeline is beyond not only a human lifetime, but beyond the postulated length of the existence of the human race itself, it’s simply not possible to imagine any experiment that could verify such speculations which we humans could reasonably perform. Perhaps you could verify some tiny fraction of that process that occurs over years, or a lifetime, or even several lifetimes, but you cannot ever observe or replicate a significant portion of the process. It’s beyond the realm of experimental confirmation due to immutable facts of human reality.
The situation gets even worse when, instead of considering an ongoing process that we can still observe at least a fraction of today, we try to consider an event that occurred completely in the past that we cannot observe at all today. In that case, we are left only with some incomplete portion of the after effects of that event to study, hence why I call such things “forensic” science instead of experimental science, since their situation is much the same as a detective attempting to piece together a picture of an event only by studying the evidence left behind in its wake.
“No, that’s not true.”
Yes, it IS true; because there will always be a challenge to it.
“it’s simply not possible to imagine any experiment that could verify such speculations which we humans could reasonably perform.”
Until we do. Scientific development and advancement has always been with us.
“...we are left only with some incomplete portion of the after effects of that event to study, hence why I call such things “forensic” science instead of experimental science...”
Forensic science is the application of criminal and civil laws. It is specific, and is confined by the legal standards of admissible evidence and criminal procedure.
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