Posted on 08/04/2023 3:47:47 AM PDT by CFW
Former President Donald Trump has been arraigned on four felony counts alleging he conspired to spread claims of 2020 election fraud that he knew to be untrue to stop certification of the vote.
Federal prosecutors bringing the case, however, will have to contend with at least five high-profile cases of confirmed irregularities or illegalities from the 2020 contest ranging from Iranian interference to unlawful voting procedures.
Trump was indicted by a grand jury led by Special Counsel Jack Smith on Tuesday and arraigned Thursday in a federal courtroom on four charges, including Conspiracy to Defraud the United States; Conspiracy to Obstruct an Official Proceeding; Obstruction of and Attempt to Obstruct an Official Proceeding; and Conspiracy Against Rights.
The indictment alleges that “The purpose of the conspiracy was to overturn the legitimate results of the 2020 presidential election by using knowingly false claims of election fraud to obstruct the federal government function by which those results are collected, counted, and certified.
(Excerpt) Read more at justthenews.com ...
Yeah, I was screaming that same thing two years ago. And I still want it now. But for that to happen, we will have to prove that some votes somewhere have been manipulated, not just that they can be. So far, Dominion has won all of their lawsuits, and more are pending. It could wipe out Mike Lindell if he gets a $1 billion judgement against him like FOX did. Hopefully he won’t but he’s been left out there all alone to fight them seems like.
People have gotten lazy, including election officials, and like how easy easy it is to just have the machines count the votes. Same for mail in voting, people like the convenience. Until we can prove some actual fraud, they’re just going to take the easy way out, unfortunately.
I saw something on TV during the night of the 2020 election(as best I can recall that far back) that highlighted the statements that the election was being stolen. As I recall there was a thing showing how many votes Trump had at a certain point during the counting of the votes & the next morning according to the news it showed Trump with less actual votes than he had the night before. I am certainly not all-knowing, but I fail to see how this could be. Could someone explain this? Maybe there is a logical explanation I am not aware of.
What’s ironic about all this is that the things that made it so easy to cast fraudulent votes in 2020 without detection — i.e., mail-in ballots, drop boxes, loose voter identity and registration standards, and the anonymity of individual ballots — also make it impossible to argue that a claim of a fraudulent election is unreasonable.
They’re going to have to prove there was at least SOME fraud, to justify endlessly claiming the election was “stolen,” “rigged,” or get this, “fraudulent.” Not just in the courtroom, but in the court of public opinion. Oh sure, there’s many that will believe whatever Trump says, but not everyone, not even in the Republican Party, much less elsewhere. As I said, an opportunity for fraud, does not mean that it took place. And if it was so widespread, as we’ve been led to believe, there should be at some some concrete proof of it by now.
But just specifically on the court case, the intent seems to be to claim that Trump conspired to disrupt an official proceeding, at least, and hijack the election results himself, at worst. Trump’s position seems to be I was of the belief I had won, and so I was just pushing the limits of my rights. The rumors are, and rumors on something like this should always be taken with a grain of salt of course, but the rumors are that Trump was admitting to some of his staff that he knew he had lost. That will be key. So far there is I believe Mark Meadows chief of staff who already testified to this at the J6 hearings. Meadows himself may have now flipped it appears. He supposedly has a lawyer son in Georgia that told Meadows Sr. that they had investigated it in Georgia and couldn’t really find anything.
So depending on how that testimony shakes out, whether Trump has any real evidence of fraud will be critical to proving his intent, or state of mind. Just the possibility of fraud, i.e. wishful thinking, may not be enough to justify the events that happened, in the minds of the jurors, and all presiding judges who will eventually review this case.
This s true to an extent.
Low tech is all that was needed to harvest the counterfeit or otherwise improper ballots. Corrupt voter registration roles were used to send out millions of ballots they knew would be returned. They conspired with postal service to collect these and complete them for Biden, bypass verification and use mules to traffic them. They preyed on mentally impaired, etc., etc. They changed and/or violated all sorts of election laws and procedures.
But the high tech machines were crucial to their plan and this is the point a lot of people are missing: Once the counterfeit or otherwise improper ballots were entered into the machines, the audit trail and physical chain of custody was destroyed.
The machines were effectively used to “launder” the fake ballots.
So, while there is plenty of abstract proof that millions of improper ballots were counted, it is impossible to identify which particular votes were based on which particular improper ballots.
The problem has always been - even if you could convince the courts that massive “irregularities” existed - the only remedy is to throw out the entire election and do it over correctly.
Apparently, too many think this is “unthinkable” and would throw the nation into chaos. I think chaos is what we have right now.
Those who deny that there is evidence of intentional election malfeasance which at least ‘may’ have tilted the election in favor of xiden (assuredly, from my chair) are suffering irreversible cranial-sphincter inversion and permanently brain damaged.
Remember J6ers ongoing situation (and worse) when it comes time to dealing with them, because many of them are in positions of power at all levels and those who suggest a ‘slap on the wrist’ are equally culpable.
“But the high tech machines were crucial to their plan and this is the point a lot of people are missing: Once the counterfeit or otherwise improper ballots were entered into the machines, the audit trail and physical chain of custody was destroyed.
The machines were effectively used to “launder” the fake ballots.”
Not saying not true, but first I have heard of this next little tidbit of election fraud. Very difficult to prove, and yes that is the point.
“The problem has always been - even if you could convince the courts that massive “irregularities” existed - the only remedy is to throw out the entire election and do it over correctly.”
Not true. There was another VALID Constitutional remedy. The election could have been deemed invalid, and it’s kicked back to the State Legislatures to provide delegates for elections. That is called a Republic, that is what the Constitution called for.
That has already been done.
The somewhat bizarre press conference Rudy Giuliani held in Philadelphia shortly after Election Day in 2020 is worth revisiting. There was clear, irrefutable evidence of election fraud presented there.
It’s helpful to know how the Pennsylvania mail-in ballot process worked. The steps in the process were as follows:
1. The registered voter submits a request for a ballot.
2. A ballot is mailed to the voter.
3. The voter mails the completed ballot back.
4. The election office receives the ballot.
What’s critical here is that the exact dates of Steps #1, #2 and #4 are documented in the state election records.
When Giuliani was speaking at that press conference, he rattled off the names of several Pennsylvania voters who had ballots cast in their names even though they had died before Step #1. The most notable of these names was the late boxing legend Larry Holmes — who had died TEN YEARS EARLIER.
The value of these particular cases isn’t to support a claim that the number of dead voters in Pennsylvania would have made a difference in the state’s results. It’s to demonstrate that the state’s election integrity and security processes were so shoddy (at best) and open to fraud (at worst) that there could have been literally millions of fraudulent ballots cast.
Trump won. The current regime is illegitimate.
*****
Yes. Biden was installed, not elected.
YES, YES AND ANOTHER YES
The electronic machines had no bearing on the 2020 fraud. Almost every jurisdiction that used these machines were only using them to tabulate the results. They still used paper ballots, and those ballots would have shown the same results no matter how many times they were re-counted.
I agree that it was completely ridiculous how states were allowed to break away from their well established laws, in how to process elections. Those that broke those laws should have been held accountable, but very few were. And, more to your point, this certainly COULD have led to widespread voter fraud. But again as you said, Giuliani could only cite a few actual examples of this leading to fraud. The question then becomes, how does that quantity in 2020, compare to just the normal amount of fraud that occurs in ANY election, does it not?
From what I understand, trying to quantify this number is exactly what Mark Meadows son was investigating in Georgia. As you said Rudy had done in PA, they found evidence of minor fraud, here and there, but supposedly none more than in any typical election. Meadows himself reported this to Trump, it is alleged. According to Meadows own chief of staff, this may have been the moment, or one of the moments when Trump said something along the lines of we can't let this get out.
I was obviously not there, and that may not be a perfect rendition of the facts. But the case is probably going to revolve around, had Trump been given any sort of quantifiable, provable evidence that the election had been stolen, or, had he instead been given more evidence that there was no more fraud than usual. But, that he went ahead with the fraud story, and the events of J6, for pride, at best.
I sincerely hope that's not all it was, for all of our sakes. But over the last 2.5 years, I have gone from being 100% convinced the election was stolen, to now being down closer to 60-40. So I want that evidence. And I think WE, not just Trump at this point, NEED that evidence.
“Remember J6ers ongoing situation (and worse) when it comes time to dealing with them, because many of them are in positions of power at all levels and those who suggest a ‘slap on the wrist’ are equally culpable.”
And the GOP (especially the leadership) remains silent. We have yet to see the promised January 6th tapes in full and even those that yelled the loudest for those to be released have suddenly become silent on the issue. They disgust me and I hold them all in contempt.
And that’s only because those are the people who were DECEASED before Step #1 in the Pennsylvania election process. If they were comatose, living in nursing homes, completely disinterested in politics, or even if they died AFTER Step #1, there’s no way to prove any fraud unless someone comes right out and admits to a crime.
Between the Pennsylvania examples and the “2000 Mules” narrative, I’d say there is more than sufficient evidence to support a claim that a person could reasonably believe there was rampant, widespread ballot fraud in 2020.
It’s worth noting how many so-called “conspiracy theories” over the last few years related to the Russia hoax, COVID, Ukraine, etc. have turned out to be completely true. In fact, this has happened with such boring regularity that even the most outlandish “conspiracy theory” should never be dismissed out of hand.
” ‘…. we have put together I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.’ — candidate Joe Biden, October 2020
“This one item alone not only destroys the prosecutor’s narrative, but it should make Joseph Robinette Biden get he very first witness to be deposed by Trump’s attorneys.”
I can’t understand why that statement is always dodged. Every Republican in Congress should be shouting about it. The fact that they are not is a clear indication of the One-Party system we now have. The Red Squad really doesn’t want to defeat the Blue Squad, it’s not in the script.
I will never be convinced that the election was fair until the following is answered:
1. Why all the swing states stopped counting at the same time and who made the call?
2. That I didn’t see, on tape,the people in Fulton County send home GOP election workers and take ballots out from under tables and run them through over 3 times.
3. Vote totals changing in the wee hours in swing states with taped evidence of ballots being delivered in places like Detroit. In PA testimony of a truck driver that drove millions of ballots from New Jersey to PA in the earl morning hours on January 7.
To name a few….
Well, When I went to vote in our last election, I scanned the available WiFi connections - For two Dominion scanners in the polling place there were SEVEN WiFi connections - None of them associated with the polling place (Church) itself.
“I can’t understand why that statement is always dodged. Every Republican in Congress should be shouting about it. The fact that they are not is a clear indication of the One-Party system we now have. The Red Squad really doesn’t want to defeat the Blue Squad, it’s not in the script.“
Yep. It tells me that BOTH parties are in cahoots and both wanted Trump - GONE. (So that they could get back to corruption as usual…)
Our “government” is now the WWF; (probably has been for some time..). Yes, there IS a script: this week, the dem wins/next week the repub wins.. you both get paid, just the same…
But when the cameras are on and the little people are watching, say really nasty things about each other.. make it look like you hate the other guy! Rouse your ‘team’ to send in those checks… make them think you’re really fighting for THEM!.. (they’re idiots, they’ll fall for anything; and our media is being paid to mop up after us…)
I believe it. I was one of the freepers posting the actual schematic diagrams that showed the devices have internet connections back when they first claimed they didn’t. There”s also at least SOME evidence that the information is even going overseas to be tabulated. It’s all outrageous, but until some actual fraud can be proven, dominion will probably keep winning their lawsuits, and people will keep using them out of convenience.
Yes, the machines are just fancy adding machines, so they would have the same result as a hand count.
The difference is, that upon being entered into the machine, the digital representation becomes the official ballot, and the physical ballot is put aside.
Let’s say you have a batch of 100 ballots, 51 for Biden and 49 for Trump.
Let’s say the physical count matches the digital count, but half of the physical ballots for Biden are missing their signature or are otherwise improper.
The problem auditors in AZ faced was that the ballots are not serialized such that they could pair a particular invalid paper ballot with its particular digital representation, and thus could not specify which particular digital ballot was invalid.
Obviously, they did this deliberately to destroy the audit trail.
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