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MORE EVIDENCE THAT PRIGOZHIN’S MUTINY WAS BACKED BY THE WEST
Sonar 21 ^ | 28 June 2023 | Larry Johnson

Posted on 06/29/2023 8:48:17 AM PDT by Kazan

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To: Kazan

Where is Surovikin?


41 posted on 06/29/2023 10:33:13 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: ModelBreaker

I would’ve liked the Bay of Pigs to have worked out.


42 posted on 06/29/2023 11:11:51 AM PDT by Miami Rebel
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To: PGR88

The opposite seems to be true to me.

I would want my enemy’s to think my intelligence sources were incompetent, and were unable to pernitrate his inner circle, rather than having them believe we were hyper intelligent analysis with near psychic abilities who had spy’s through their internal network.

I don’t see the advantage to making them more cautious with their information security.


43 posted on 06/29/2023 11:41:36 AM PDT by Jotmo (Whoever said, "The pen is mightier than the sword." has clearly never been stabbed to death.)
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To: Kazan

Riiight that’s why he went to Belarus. Cause the west is strong there and no repercussions can happen.


44 posted on 06/29/2023 11:44:24 AM PDT by discostu (like a dog being shown a card trick)
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To: dforest

Likely the Russians scammed the CIA and MI6 out of billions of dollars.


45 posted on 06/29/2023 11:52:07 AM PDT by Thunder90 (All posts soley represent my own opinions)
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To: Sirius Lee

It’s the Paleo Communists (Leninists) vs the Fabian Socialists. And yes, Russia is still Communist.


46 posted on 06/29/2023 11:54:11 AM PDT by Thunder90 (All posts soley represent my own opinions)
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To: Kazan

I like my theory best. Prigozhin is working thru covert channels with the CIA and is being used as an asset against Russia. Kinda like they did with Ukraine with Ukrainian assets.

However, Prigozhin is about as loyal to Russia as the come. Him and Putin are 100% devoted to the motherland Russia. Prigozhin is working as a double agent and is actually using the CIA.


47 posted on 06/29/2023 11:58:34 AM PDT by CodeJockey
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To: Thunder90
And yes, Russia is still Communist.

It's a mixed market economy. Widespread privatization but with central government control over everything. Like china. Like Britain. Like Germany. Like Ukraine. Like the banana republic of the United States. All are more akin to fascist.

So. No. russia is not communist, but if you want a free market, go to Taiwan or Switzerland.

48 posted on 06/29/2023 12:11:06 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (They intend to murder us. Prep if you want to live and live like you are prepping for eternal life)
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To: Kazan
He claims to have the inside scoop on how Western intelligence agencies knew in advance that Prigozhin was going full Benedict Arnold, but is so naive that he did not realize he was being fed a fairy tale.

The Washington Post and the New York Times are widely believed to act as public relations outlets for U.S. intel agencies. What the government wants to get out to the public, without agency responsibility, it leaks to its favorite outlet and it gets printed. It is not unreasonable that these publications ger their info from someone known to be from an agency.

The fact that the CIA briefed the Gang of Eight in Congress on Prigozhin’s planned uprising two days prior....

The WSJ article states CIA and congressional knowledge of the plan two days prior to liftoff.

Western officials said they believe Prigozhin had communicated his intentions to senior military officers, possibly including Gen. Sergei Surovikin, commander of the Russian aerospace force. It couldn’t be determined whether Surovikin passed this information on to the FSB, or how the agency found out about Prigozhin’s plans.

Here the WSJ article intel source appears to misdirect attention, claiming a lack of knowledge of how the FSB found out about Prigozhin's plans. Why make the effort to misdirect attention from GRU (actually the GU) to FSB? Putin had shitcanned FSB, and put GRU in charge of Ukraine intelligence matters over a year ago.

https://www.businessinsider.com/putin-gru-in-charge-ukraine-intel-after-fsb-failures-report-2022-5

Putin sacked the FSB and put the secretive GRU spy agency in charge of Ukraine intelligence after a string of failures, top Russian journalists say

Bill Bostock
Business Insider
May 10, 2022, 6:37 AM CDT

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/24/us-intelligence-prigozhin-putin/

U.S. spies learned in mid-June Prigozhin was planning armed action in Russia

By Ellen Nakashima and Shane Harris
Washington Post

Updated June 24, 2023 at 10:44 p.m. EDT
Published June 24, 203 at 9:09 p.m. EDT

[Excerpt]

U.S. intelligence agencies believe that Putin also was informed that Prighozin was plotting something. And though it is not clear precisely when he was told, it was "definitely more than 24 hours ago," the first U.S. official said.

It remains unclear why Putin did not take action to thwart Prigozhin's takeover of the military command or his move on Moscow.

Here, Putin "definitely" knew "more than 24 hours" in advance.

The original founder of Wagner was a GRU officer, Dmitri Utkin. Prigozhin said Utkin was the master planner of the March for Justice. Virtually all Wagner officers were former GRU officers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PyQnjeJXtM&ab_channel=HistoryLegends

The Truth About Wagner's March on Moscow (Youtube)

one thing that left me wondering was the statement from Prigozhin the night of the insurrection our commander was behind the whole operation he's the best strategist in the world Dimitri Utkin.

[...]

surprise surprise like we've seen in this video, I posted most of Wagner's commanders are also former officers of the GRU and this could explain why Prigozhin said our commander was behind the whole operation, he is the best strategist in the world, talking about the original Wagner Dmitry Utkin. And what do we know about him? Well Utkin served as the commander of the 700 Separate Special Detachment of the GRU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Utkin

Dmitry Valerievich Utkin; (born 11 June 1970) is a Ukrainian-born Russian army officer. He served as a special forces officer in the GRU, where he held the rank of lieutenant colonel. He is alleged to have founded the Wagner Group, with his own call-sign reportedly being Wagner. Utkin has received four Orders of Courage of Russia.

If Putin knew "at least" 24 hours in advance, he could have known since the master planner Utkin, formerly GRU, hatched the plans. Putin could have known the plans before Prigozhin. Assuming the March to Justice went according to plan, Prigozhin remained behind in Rostov and sent most of what he had for men on a parade down the highway to nowhere. Putin did not resist their advance. Rather, the Chechen special forces were dispatched to Rostov where Prigozhin was at. When they got into position, Lukashenko was connected to Prigozhin who had a come to Jesus moment.

It is possible that Prigozhin gave an oscar worthy performance on behalf Putin. That would explain why Prigozhin went to Belarus unharmed, and apparently nobody was charged. An equal explanation is that Prigozhin and Wagner are very popular in Russia. The Russian government did not desire to make martyrs. It was better to have Prigozhin go off into exile. Rather like the lack of prosecutions following the U.S. Civil War. Notable figures such as Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee were indicted but never brought to trial.

There seems to be no good reason for the WSJ to speculate about the FSB when the GRU is all over Wagner. In recent days, Putin proclaimed that Wagner had been 100% a Russian government funded organization, the money coming out of the national budget. Wagner was never actually a private organization, but was actually a government organization budgeted under the Ministry of Defense.

As for Prigozhin's support, the vast majority of his officers were former GRU officers and they conspicuously boycotted the event. Maybe they were just patriotic, and maybe they were informed not to participate. It is at least cause to consider that the GRU knew what was going to happen.

When the CIA and the Gang of Eight knew of the planned action two days before it happened, and knew that the Russian government knew, they did not stop Prizozhin but may have speeded up the execution of his plan. In any case, while things appeared to be going well, and Prigozhin's parade proceeded without opposition, some numbnuts took to Agency self-congratulations about its intel and briefing the Gang of Eight in advance. And then Chechen special forces arrived around Rostov and Lukashenko made his phone call. And Mr. Numbnuts realized he had broken the first rule of Fight Club. At a minimum, the leak infers that the CIA, the Gang of Eight, and the President knew in advance of the plan and let it proceed wthout informing Prigozhin that the plan had been busted.


49 posted on 06/29/2023 12:45:18 PM PDT by woodpusher
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To: Kazan

It well may be that he had Western encouragement. It also may well be that he informed Putin about certain suggestions ha had received and together the two staged the “insurrection.” It had a flamboyant and wholly unrealistic beginning and and a strange and no harm no foul ending.


50 posted on 06/29/2023 12:50:25 PM PDT by arthurus ( Covefe ix!)
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To: Kazan

Of course we wouldn’t do that, this administration is as clean as a whistle, yup


51 posted on 06/29/2023 1:55:42 PM PDT by norsky ( <P> <a href= > </a> <P><img src=" "width=500"></img>)
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To: CodeJockey

If Prighozin and Putin played the CIA to “out” collaborators” why not crow about it and discourage future defectors?

Russia is famously inscrutable (riddle, enigma) but that is not the sole aspect of Churchill’s observation. His point was that the riddle and enigma is a consequence of Russia’s leadership being utterly sociopathic, and entirely out for itself.

If Putin actually gave a damn about the Russian people the Caucasus would be ahead of Eastern Europe on every development measure. They had the resources to do it, but those resources have been blown on palaces, yachts, soccer clubs, London real estate, private armies and factional infighting. And nukes, because why not waste even more resources on that purely for the bragging rights.

Prighozin is part of that system. So is Putin. The people falling out of windows are on the margins and are therefore expendable no matter how loyal and patriotic they are.

So it’s far more realistic to assume that Russia’s Siloviki, the order at the top of the Kremlin, the Rossiya 1 untouchables and the Prighozin/Girkin/Utkin/Kadyrov guys are serving their own interests within a Five Families style operation.

Doing what’s best for the Families is not the same thing as doing what’s best for Russia, and those bastards all know it.

They’re not “used” as assets, they decide what to allow or not based on personal risk Vs personal reward.

Prighozin probably told Putin he was going to march for better conditions, and accused Shiogu of derailing Wagner PMC operations in Ukraine.

Putin allowed the demo but can’t upset the FSB and GRU applecarts so the price of Prighozin getting what he wanted is giving Shiogu what he wanted.


52 posted on 06/30/2023 12:13:03 AM PDT by MalPearce ("You see, but you do not observe". https://www.thefabulous.co/s/2uHEJdj)
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