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Zelensky: Ukrainian loss could force US to choose between ‘collapse of NATO’ or war
The Hill via Yahoo ^ | June 15th, 2023 | Julia Shapero

Posted on 06/15/2023 6:51:28 PM PDT by Mariner

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Thursday that a loss to Russia could ultimately force the U.S. to choose between the “collapse of NATO” or going to war.

“If Ukraine would lose, if Russia would occupy Ukraine, Russia will continue going towards Baltic countries, Poland, etcetera,” Zelensky said in an interview with NBC News. “And they will start war with one of the NATO countries, and at this moment, the U.S. would have to choose the collapse of NATO or go to war.”

The Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are all members of NATO, as is Poland. An attack on any member of the alliance is “considered an attack against them all” under the treaty organization’s principle of collective defense.

Zelensky brought up the possibility of NATO involvement in response to the suggestion from some Republican politicians that the U.S. needs to limit its spending on the war in Ukraine.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis — a 2024 Republican presidential candidate — previously described the war as a “territorial dispute,” while arguing that the U.S. should not become “further entangled” in the conflict. Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) also warned last fall that a Republican majority in the House would not write a “blank check” to Ukraine for aid.

“Is any candidate or senator who thinks it costs too much for the United States to support Ukraine, is he ready to go to war, to fight, to send his kids,” Zelensky said Thursday, adding, “Because anyway, they will have to do this if NATO gets involved.”

“It’s not Ukraine against Russia,” he said. “Russia is fighting against the civilized world.”

(Excerpt) Read more at yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia; Ukraine; War
KEYWORDS: bushwar; nato; russia; ukraine; zelensky
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To: amnestynone

You operate from the fallacy that Russia of the 2020s is the analog to Germany in the 1930s.

The government of Germany in the 1930s openly stated their intent to conquer all of Europe first, then the world. And also openly stated their intent to eliminate an entire genus of people.

Russia has stated no such ambitions, and has often stated a contrary position.

You also operate from the fallacy/fantasy that Ukraine is an actual country.

Historically, they have never been a country. In the very, very narrow window of history that anyone claims they were, most of that they were a vassal state of Russia.

Another element of you fallacious beliefs is that whether Ukraine is absorbed back into Russia, or is carved off as a separate nation is somehow within the sphere of US interests.

I’ll state this clearly: If Russia were to kill every Ukrainian now living, it would not be within the sphere of US interests. It is not possible for any occurrence in Ukraine to warrant the expenditure of a single US dollar.


181 posted on 06/16/2023 2:48:47 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: MeganC

Because there aren’t any here, and you are implying those who oppose aid to Ukraine are, in fact, Russian trolls.

You also refer to a “resurgent Soviet Empire”, implying those who do not support fighting Russia would allow the emergence of an Evil Empire.

Which is, on it’s face, wholly ludicrous.

But hey, that’s how you roll.


182 posted on 06/16/2023 2:52:08 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Bikkuri; Jane Long
99% sure it IS Kalipornia Spammer...

Yes, very similar tactics and complaints. Definitely retread trash.

183 posted on 06/16/2023 3:06:20 PM PDT by Allegra (Stop the Zeepers from Censoring FReepers)
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To: Mariner
Russia is an aggressive and dangerous predator country trying to expand its borders. It has the stated desire by Putin of reuniting “greater Russia”. If that is not the same thing it is very close. Russia now knows that it cannot conquer all of Europe but that does not mean that it does not want to expand its borders. For instance Putin has said that he regards Finland as a part of Historic Russia and given the context it was obvious that it meant to take over eventually and was already justifying future action. Ukraine is a real country and has been since it broke away from the Soviet Union in the early 1990’s.

As someone who grew up in the cold war and sometimes hot war atmosphere before the breakup of the Soviet Union. I have no desire to repeat that and do not want to see Russia resuming its aggressive and dangerous depredations. Most of the major countries in the world disagree with you that it is not in their interests to return to where we were 35 years ago.

We have spent massive amount of dollars to arm against Russia and if Russia were taken out we would not need to do that anymore so we would be saving money. It is waste of money to spend money on national defense and then not to use it when it is needed and it is needed now because it is in the interest of us and all of the other countries who would be put in harms way by a resurgent Russian predator state. And the fact that it is another country doing the fighting is a definite boon for us.

184 posted on 06/16/2023 4:01:33 PM PDT by amnestynone (We are asked by people who do not tolerate us to tolerate the intolerable in the name of tolerance.)
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To: amnestynone

Russia grew more arrogant and dangerous after the weak Western response to the invasion of the Republic of Georgia. Then there was more talk of “reversing the illegal transfer of Alaska” and other bombastic rhetoric. It was not just on Russian social media which has its own paid trolls to funnel opinion. The Speaker of the Russian Duma spoke in serious terms about getting Alaska back (of course despite his high title he is a blithering idiot ... their Kamala).


185 posted on 06/16/2023 4:09:38 PM PDT by Monterrosa-24 (Saludemos la patria orgullosos)
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To: Mariner
See 185 if you don't think Russia is a threat to this country. Or at last was until Ukraine started teaching them a lesson.
186 posted on 06/16/2023 4:16:00 PM PDT by amnestynone (We are asked by people who do not tolerate us to tolerate the intolerable in the name of tolerance.)
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To: Mariner

Z and Biden are evil...
the New World Order is evil.
I hope for ceasefire but the evil villians like Soros/WEF/US Neocons aren’t going to let it happen.
I’d love to see all the US/Nato equipment sink to the bottom of the ocean where Joe could detonate it.


187 posted on 06/16/2023 4:27:53 PM PDT by CarolinaReaganFan
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To: Mariner

I hate you because you don’t like Irish midgets!

See, I can make up crap about you too.


188 posted on 06/16/2023 4:48:22 PM PDT by MeganC (There is nothing feminine about feminism. )
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To: DesertRhino

They were a solid friend until the communist era… and they shucked off that burden over 30 years ago and went back to being friendly.

Friends don't support domestic terror groups like BLM within each other's borders. With friends like these...
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4084841/posts

189 posted on 06/16/2023 5:48:57 PM PDT by FormerFRLurker
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To: Mariner

I’d have to say that Hitler was an “enemy of the civilized world,” but not everyone that we don’t like is.


190 posted on 06/16/2023 6:04:08 PM PDT by x
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To: amnestynone

Your mind is so small, I won’t even bother. Enjoy yourself. May you never have to experience war.


191 posted on 06/16/2023 7:59:18 PM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: Bulwyf

Obviously you live in your own little world.


192 posted on 06/17/2023 7:46:24 AM PDT by amnestynone (We are asked by people who do not tolerate us to tolerate the intolerable in the name of tolerance.)
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To: amnestynone

What lesson did Ukraine teach the Russians? Like what happens when you let the globalist west make you a client state and then offer up your population in a proxy war for a false promise of freedom that you are unprepared to physically fight for?

What a lesson.


193 posted on 06/17/2023 7:54:54 AM PDT by dforest
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To: dforest

Hogwash, Ukraine is fighting for their survival and we are helping them. Since when is freedom a false promise? I doubt that I would be sympathetic to the globalism you are warning against, but at the same time we all live in the world and a aggressive dangerous predator state is a threat to all of us. The removal of Russia as a global threat is highly desired. The overwhelming majority of people see that which is why the majority of the people ad their governments support Ukraine and oppose Putin.


194 posted on 06/17/2023 8:03:00 AM PDT by amnestynone (We are asked by people who do not tolerate us to tolerate the intolerable in the name of tolerance.)
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To: amnestynone

No, massive network of current and former brothers, some there in it.

I don’t care about your biases. I only want to stay out and put my own community first.


195 posted on 06/17/2023 12:37:18 PM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: BobL

Agreed on both points.


196 posted on 06/18/2023 8:52:43 AM PDT by oblomov
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To: Wallace T.

Good post ...thanks ...


197 posted on 06/18/2023 12:22:41 PM PDT by Therapsid (eagan the lack of food is expected to kill around 1 billion next year)
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To: amnestynone

“Since when is freedom a false promise?”

When it permits a surgeon to cut the breasts off a 13 year old girl and escape punishment.


198 posted on 06/18/2023 6:24:09 PM PDT by Jim Noble (Make the GOP illegal - everything else will follow)
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To: Nervous Tick

The explanations were given

Slobodan Milosevic had committed war crimes in Bosnia & Herzegovina and there were clear indications he was doing the same in Kosovo.

In essence, the NATO bombed Serbia to stop Serbia’s president Milosevic solving his Kosovo problem by removing all of its Albanian population. The United Nations and NATO were satisfied that the Kosovo crisis resulted primarily from his policy of “ethnic cleansing”.

850,000 refugees had left Kosovo by April. Another 230,000 were listed as internally displaced persons (IDPs), driven from their homes, but still inside Kosovo.

The Hague Tribunal (ICTY) later ruled that over 700,000 Albanians were forcibly displaced by Yugoslav forces into neighbouring Albania and Macedonia, with many more thousands displaced within Kosovo.

Now as to whether it was the right thing to do is another question


199 posted on 06/18/2023 10:28:05 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Mariner

Biden prolly can’t lose this before the election

The neocon hawks are winning in DC but politics is arriving


200 posted on 06/18/2023 10:32:55 PM PDT by wardaddy (Technology is not by default an improvement )
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