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Zelensky: Ukrainian loss could force US to choose between ‘collapse of NATO’ or war
The Hill via Yahoo ^ | June 15th, 2023 | Julia Shapero

Posted on 06/15/2023 6:51:28 PM PDT by Mariner

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Thursday that a loss to Russia could ultimately force the U.S. to choose between the “collapse of NATO” or going to war.

“If Ukraine would lose, if Russia would occupy Ukraine, Russia will continue going towards Baltic countries, Poland, etcetera,” Zelensky said in an interview with NBC News. “And they will start war with one of the NATO countries, and at this moment, the U.S. would have to choose the collapse of NATO or go to war.”

The Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are all members of NATO, as is Poland. An attack on any member of the alliance is “considered an attack against them all” under the treaty organization’s principle of collective defense.

Zelensky brought up the possibility of NATO involvement in response to the suggestion from some Republican politicians that the U.S. needs to limit its spending on the war in Ukraine.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis — a 2024 Republican presidential candidate — previously described the war as a “territorial dispute,” while arguing that the U.S. should not become “further entangled” in the conflict. Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) also warned last fall that a Republican majority in the House would not write a “blank check” to Ukraine for aid.

“Is any candidate or senator who thinks it costs too much for the United States to support Ukraine, is he ready to go to war, to fight, to send his kids,” Zelensky said Thursday, adding, “Because anyway, they will have to do this if NATO gets involved.”

“It’s not Ukraine against Russia,” he said. “Russia is fighting against the civilized world.”

(Excerpt) Read more at yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia; Ukraine; War
KEYWORDS: bushwar; nato; russia; ukraine; zelensky
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To: rdcbn1
the Russians would have a very rough time with a serious American air attack

The US would first need to destroy all Russian air defense in Ukraine, like the US did to Iraq in 2003. This is not an easy task. Chess would be a much easier game if the opponent couldn't respond to my move!

The US air force will not fly anywhere until air superiority is achieved. They never want a repeat of what happened in Japan and Germany in WW2.

61 posted on 06/15/2023 7:54:32 PM PDT by Right_Wing_Madman
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To: rdcbn1

“It’s just that our guys are really that good. It would be like clubbing baby seals if we use our front line assets.”

Given my understanding of their air defenses, particularly their operational range, I’m not sure the quality of our pilots and others will matter much.

Anyway, I prefer to not find out, as sending NATO in means World War 3, and Russia has some rather powerful toys and very clever ways to deliver them.


62 posted on 06/15/2023 7:54:43 PM PDT by BobL
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To: Therapsid
Russia is a stalking horse for China's plan to become the world's preeminent power. Both nations see the United States and the Western democracies as weak morally and economically. Putin badly misjudged the fighting spirit of Ukraine but the protracted war is depleting NATO and U.S. military hardware, and due to deindustrialization, replacement of equipment will take more time than in the Cold War era.

Zelensky is correct when he says a Russian victory may mean the end of NATO. The Ukrainians may yet win, and retake the lost territory, even Crimea. If they fail, I can see Turkey, Hungary, and possibly Romania leaving NATO. France has asked for an invitation to the next BRICS meeting. Germany may think cheaper Russian energy is more important than staying in America's good graces. While not a NATO member, Israel may see the world balance of power shifting from Washington and London to Beijing and Moscow and act accordingly. Ditto for Japan and Vietnam.

63 posted on 06/15/2023 7:55:15 PM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: House Atreides

I prefer veteran.


64 posted on 06/15/2023 7:57:05 PM PDT by Redmen4ever
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To: Mariner
Can't resist posting Zelensky's dancing talents:


65 posted on 06/15/2023 7:57:22 PM PDT by entropy12 (Career politicians like DeSantis are there to build wealth, Trump is there to serve & lose wealth)
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To: Redmen4ever
consideration would have to be given to stationing NATO troops on the Ukrainian side of the armistice line as part of the armistice agreement, so as to deter future adventurism on the part of Russia

OK, I considered it.

No.

66 posted on 06/15/2023 7:59:17 PM PDT by Jim Noble (Make the GOP illegal - everything else will follow)
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To: Wallace T.

Every historical superpower met it’s demise. History repeats.


67 posted on 06/15/2023 8:00:44 PM PDT by entropy12 (Career politicians like DeSantis are there to build wealth, Trump is there to serve & lose wealth)
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To: Tijeras_Slim

Or they may turn their attention to the countries that were supplying weapon. Maybe they’ll start giving weapons to terrorist that hate America.


68 posted on 06/15/2023 8:02:54 PM PDT by rottweiller_inc (inter canem et lupum)
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To: DesertRhino

Russia is the historic enemy of refugees from the Pale of Settlement, many of whom wound up in the USA, and whose grandchildren are running US Ukraine policy.

In the future, there should be a rule that if a future Victoria Nuland or Anthony Blinken wants to exercise their talents in foreign policy, they will have to do Burma or Zimbabwe.

None of this “The Czar was mean to my great-grandfather, so let’s have a nuclear war”.


69 posted on 06/15/2023 8:03:29 PM PDT by Jim Noble (Make the GOP illegal - everything else will follow)
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To: Wallace T.
Zelensky is correct when he says a Russian victory may mean the end of NATO.

Good.

While not a NATO member, Israel may see the world balance of power shifting from Washington and London to Beijing and Moscow and act accordingly.

Another plus.

70 posted on 06/15/2023 8:05:53 PM PDT by Jim Noble (Make the GOP illegal - everything else will follow)
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To: BobL
America has such overwhelming conventional force capabilities, the best way for the Russians to counter is with tactical nuclear weapons.

That is the risk we run if things escalate and were intervene directly.

It's the old man in a bar fight analogy. A group of young guys gang up on an old guy who really cannot defend himself hand to hand with a three to one disadvantage with guys half his age. So he just pull out his gun and shoots them. Problem solved. Russia is like the old guy in the bar.

71 posted on 06/15/2023 8:12:26 PM PDT by rdcbn1
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To: Reno89519

As you may know, Joe Biden initially agreed with you. When Russia invaded Ukraine, Joe offered to fly Zelensky out of the country. But, Zelensky said no, and rallied Ukraine to fight the Russians.

I’m guessing here, but I think you’d say, back in 1938, “we” didn’t need the Sudetenland and could give it up in order to achieve peace in our time.

Imagine if the Czechs had decided back in 1938, the hell with you Chamberlain, we’re not going to surrender to Hitler. We’re going to fight.

As it is, I don’t know who was the President or the Prime Minister or other leader of Czechoslovakia back then, because that person was sorry excuse for a man.


72 posted on 06/15/2023 8:19:03 PM PDT by Redmen4ever
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To: BobL
"Sounds like he’s finally listening to his generals."

Sounds like he's finally listening to his genitals (where Putin kicked him)

73 posted on 06/15/2023 8:22:37 PM PDT by Scooter100
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To: Redmen4ever
Imagine if the Czechs had decided back in 1938, the hell with you Chamberlain, we’re not going to surrender to Hitler. We’re going to fight.

So the Czechs get steamrolled in 1938, instead of 1939. I credit Chamberlain for buying one year of peace.

74 posted on 06/15/2023 8:25:12 PM PDT by Right_Wing_Madman
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To: Mariner

Zelensky may indeed be a lunatic but I’d bet good money that Victoria Nuland writes his script.


75 posted on 06/15/2023 8:26:43 PM PDT by TigersEye (Woke is a cancer of the mind and humanity)
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To: Jim Noble

If you were the only person with a vote on the matter, your opinion in this matter would mean a lot. But, as it is, you’re one of 155 million voters in this country.

As it is, you reveal that you think you are in a distinct minority, with no prospect of persuading others to your opinion.

Here is a synopsis of the classic book, How to win friends and influence.

http://bookoutlines.pbworks.com/w/page/14422673/How%20To%20Win%20Friends%20and%20Influence%20People


76 posted on 06/15/2023 8:31:55 PM PDT by Redmen4ever
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To: rottweiller_inc

Wouldn’t doubt it.


77 posted on 06/15/2023 8:44:13 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Nifster

>> You are delusional

You are controlled by demons


78 posted on 06/15/2023 8:45:10 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Jesus is LORD and Savior! And Donald Trump is President of the United States of America.)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

Russia would do well to not waste resources on their surface navy. Their “carrier” is a disaster and wouldn’t last a day.


79 posted on 06/15/2023 8:45:30 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Mariner
We have no business in this mess.
Victoria Ruland, and our State Department, lit this fire over ten years ago, and they want to continue the conflagration. They act like they want WWIII. I suppose it would take attention off the rest of the crap they are pulling in the United States - turning us into a Nation without borders, and subsequently a dumping ground for all of the third world refuge; fixed elections; pedophiles running amuck in Washington DC (and other positions of power); butchering children as they turn perversion into a religion; etc. Let's start WWIII and distract the masses.
80 posted on 06/15/2023 8:45:56 PM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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