Desperate Putin, 70, brings Soviet-era T-55 tanks as old as he is out of retirement to bolster his faltering war efforts – having already raided museums for T-62 models

Thanks, but I don't think I need lessons in what's wrong with the USA these days.

Apparently you do since you once stated that the debt may be a problem. There is no may about it, and you are only increasing that problem by supporting the creation of more debt to fund, not only the war, but the day-to-day finances of Ukraine. A foreign nation that is no better, in reality, than the nation they are fighting.

So, why do you insist on saddling the families of America with more debt? Especially our children who are already having a hard time making a life for themselves as it is. They will be the first generation that will not see a better life than their parents. This is the result of our our current & past acts of adventurism have created for the children of this nation. What a great disservice we have done, and I for one feel horrible that our continued mis adventurism, at their expense, has done to them.

The result will be America's standing in the world suffers serious additional damage, and there's no way to predict how long it will take good leadership to repair.

That is happening because we are embroiled in this conflict. Continuing down this path, only increases our debt, as well as, weakening ourselves even more so. Furthermore, it increases that time needed to repair the damage, that grows with each passing day of our involvement.

If Republicans start rejecting continued involvement, then the Democrats are faced with either joining, or continuing on their own. If they choose the latter, then they become the owners of the results.

In the meantime, our refusal to seek a peaceful settlement before Putin launched the invasion, has opened the door for China to make inroads by being the one to broker a peaceful resolution, that we had refused to do from the start.

You facilitated this opening with your insistence to not seek out a resolution prior to invasion, and then after invasion taking the stance that entirely blames Putin, when there were indeed extenuating circumstances you chose to ignore. You also chose to ignore that Putin went in very soft in the beginning. Which may have been a last ditch attempt to give the U.S., one final chance to intervene to provide a resolution to the conflict. Instead, you took this as a sign of Russia's weakness, thus stoking the notion that we were winning this conflict and that we need to make the most f this opportunity. Problem is, that none of the NATO aligned nations really wanted to fight this proxy war, except for the U.S. & this administration in particular.

You failed to recognize it as the cluster-**** that it was then & eventually would become even more so, the more it was escalated & expanded in size & scope.

The failed to take the ineptness of this administration into consideration, even after seeing the debacle that was carried out in Afghanistan. None of this ever even played a part in your thinking to give pause. You just blindly rushed in supporting this conflict with the sole justification of; Putin invaded Ukraine. Your support for our involvement, only furthers the erosion of our nation's strength & abilities. The attitude you adopted was, consequences be damned regarding our involvement in yet another protracted war, because you failed to think what our involvement would result in if we lost yet another conflict. A conflict that was doomed to fail on so many levels, which you refused to take into consideration, because bravado consumed you clouding your thinking.

We are now facing what we should do next.

Do we offer up a peace plan ourselves?

Do we make the decision to get more involved by sending our men, women, along with the transgenders, into the conflict to salvage our reputation around the world?

How many are you willing to sacrifice?

Are you willing to take it to the nuclear stage if need be?

When will you wake up & realize that this is evil at work?

When will you stop supporting the evil that is destroying our good name, along with our nation?

None of you cheerleaders ever took any of this into consideration at all. As I have said before, emotions tend to exacerbate problems, not resolve them. Using your brains might have avoided all of this. Sadly, that was not done.

You’re as delusional confirmation biased about Ukraine Russia conflict as you are Dixie

Not surprising

constitution ( reformation / protestant ) nationalism

vs

marxist / diversity nationalism

you don’t see the difference

we’re supposed to be secular - plural

what’s fueling this war is communism / atheism - nwo

Maine State Senator Eric Brakey dropped truth bombs about the overthrow of the Democracy of Ukraine, Nazis, Joe Biden, and fake news:

Robert DeLong: "First off, Putin couldn't even begin to use Holodomor as justification for the invasion, thus he never has...
...If you knew what you were talking about then you would know that the Holodomor, a man-made famine that convulsed the Soviet republic of Ukraine from 1932 to 1933, peaking in the late spring of 1933, was part of a broader Soviet famine (1931–34) that also caused mass starvation in the grain-growing regions of Soviet Russia and Kazakhstan.
Was it intentional, or a major mistake made by Stalin?
Either way, his decisions impacted more than just Ukraine.
Bottom line, it was the fault of Stalin who was the Soviet Union's leader.
Putin wasn't even born yet, but you are attributing it to him."

First, on the Holodomor, it was not only a man-made famine, but also Stalin deliberately took vast quantities of Ukrainian grain & other foods to feed privileged Communist classes in Russia.
Ukrainians starved & died in their millions so that Russian Communists could live the good life.
That's one reason why no Ukrainian would ever again want their necks under the Russian jack-boots.

I used this example to counter your claims regarding "the long history of Ukraine."
The long history of Ukraine does not provide evidence that Vlad the Invader has any right to invade and annex Ukrainian provinces.
It does provide many reasons why Ukrainians will never willingly submit to Russian tyranny.

Robert DeLong: "Now Ukraine might be using that as justification for having executed an 8 year long reign of terror upon the Ukrainian Russian speaking citizens of eastern Ukraine.
But even that would be wrong of Ukraine to do. "

"Reign of terror" is an insane Russian propaganda term for Ukrainians trying to defeat the first Russian invasion in 2014.
And "Russian speakers" were never the target -- Zelenskyy himself is a Russian speaker!
The targets were always and only those people, whatever language they spoke, who provided aid and comfort to Vlad the Invader's aggression against Ukraine.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort...
...The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason..."

Now, we've been over this ground before, and yet you continue to spew unfiltered Russian propaganda as if it had some basis in truth.
Why is that?

Robert DeLong: "Do you justify what Ukraine was doing to the Ukrainian Russian speaking citizens in eastern Ukraine?
If so, then you are a hypocrite, but it proves that you can't begin at the point of invasion.
For when you do you leave out why the invasion occurred in the first place."

Vlad the Invader launched two invasions of Ukraine, in 2014 and 2022.
Neither invasion was even remotely provoked or morally justified by events inside Ukraine.
If you think they were justified, then you've been drinking too much Russian propaganda Kool-Aide, and you need to stop that.

Robert DeLong: "It also allows you to ignore the attempts Putin made in the 8 years prior to the invasion to stop the hostilities in eastern Ukraine.
They were the Minsk Agreements.
Putin tried to get the international community involved to make Ukraine live up to the agreements Ukraine had signed in 2014 & 2015.
We found out later that Ukraine never intended to honor the agreements they signed, and that the international community had no intention of seeking a peaceful resolution."

There has only ever been one possible "peaceful resolution", and that is for Vlad the Invader to withdraw ALL his forces from Ukraine and pay reparations for the destruction he wrought there.
Nothing else will end the war, regardless of how many interim ceasefires they sign.

As for Minsk I, Minsk II and other agreements, the truth is both sides violated every agreement.

Minsk I, 2014: "After the follow-up memorandum, the Second Battle of Donetsk Airport broke out, and both parties continued to accuse each other of ceasefire violations.[5]
In late October, DPR prime minister and Minsk Protocol signatory Alexander Zakharchenko said that his forces would retake the territory they had lost to Ukrainian forces during a July 2014 offensive, and that DPR forces would be willing to wage "heavy battles" to do so.[5][19]
Subsequently, Zakharchenko said that he had been misquoted, and that he had meant to say that these areas would be taken through "peaceful means".[20]"
Minsk I, 2014: "While campaigning in the lead-up to the 2 November elections held by the DPR and LPR in violation of the Protocol, Zakharchenko said 'These are historical times.
We are creating a new country!
It's an insane goal'.[21]
OSCE chairman Didier Burkhalter confirmed that the elections ran 'counter to the letter and spirit of the Minsk Protocol', and said that they would 'further complicate its implementation'.[22]"
Minsk I, 2014: "Speaking on 5 December, Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov said that the 2 November DPR and LPR elections were 'exactly within the range in which they had been negotiated in Minsk', and that the Ukrainian parliament was supposed to pass an amnesty bill for DPR and LPR leaders after the Ukrainian parliamentary election in late October.[23]
According to Lavrov, closer monitoring of the Russo-Ukrainian border, as specified by the Minsk Protocol, could only take place after such an amnesty law was approved.[23]
He noted that he thought that a Ukrainian presidential decree banning prosecution of Donbas separatist combatants was issued on 16 September, but said that 'a bill has now been filed proposing to overturn' the decree.[23]"
Minsk I collapse: "By January 2015, the Minsk Protocol ceasefire had completely collapsed.[24]
Following the separatist victory at Donetsk International Airport in defiance of the Protocol, DPR spokesman Eduard Basurin said that "the Minsk Memorandum will not be considered in the form it was adopted".[25]
Later in the day, DPR leader Alexander Zakharchenko said that the DPR 'will not make any attempts at ceasefire talks any more', and that his forces were going to 'attack right up to the borders of Donetsk region'.[26]
The New York Times said that the ceasefire had 'all but vanished'.[27]"
Heavy fighting, 2015: "After heavy fighting, DPR forces captured the symbolically important Donetsk International Airport on 21 January, the last part of the city of Donetsk that had been under Ukrainian control.
Following this victory, separatist forces pressed their offensive on the important railway and road junction of Debaltseve in late January.
This renewed heavy fighting caused significant concern in the international community.
French president François Hollande and German chancellor Angela Merkel put forth a new peace plan on 7 February.[30][31]"
Minsk II, 2015: "Following the talks, it was announced on 12 February 2015 that the parties to the conflict had agreed to a new package of peacemaking measures, the Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements, which is commonly called Minsk II.[6][35][36][37]
Some of the measures agreed to were an OSCE-observed unconditional ceasefire from 15 February, withdrawal of heavy weapons from the front line, release of prisoners of war, and constitutional reform in Ukraine.[38]"
Minsk II, 2015: "Following the Minsk talks, Chancellor Merkel, President Hollande, and President Poroshenko attended a European Union (EU) summit in Brussels.[44]
At the summit, the Minsk participants briefed EU leaders about the talks.
During the briefing, they said that President Putin had tried to delay the implementation of a ceasefire by ten days, so as to force Ukrainian troops in Debaltseve to surrender their positions.
For his part, President Putin said that the Debaltseve defenders were encircled, and that the separatists expected them 'to lay down their arms and cease resistance'.[44]
Minsk II, 2015: "US State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said on 13 February that the Russian Armed Forces had actively deployed around Debaltseve to assist the separatists in forcing out Ukrainian troops prior to the start of the ceasefire, the 15 February.
Russia denied this, and Russian government spokesman Dmitry Peskov said that Russia could not assist in the implementation of Minsk II because it was "not a participant" in the conflict.[46]
Right Sector leader Dmytro Yarosh said that he reserved the right to continue fighting, and that Minsk II was unconstitutional.
He said that his Ukrainian Volunteer Corps would continue fighting 'until complete liberation of Ukrainian lands from Russian occupants', and promised 'death to Russian terrorist-occupiers'.[47][48][49]
DPR leader Alexander Zakharchenko said that the ceasefire did not apply to Debaltseve, and that fighting would continue there.[50]"
Minsk II, February 2015: "Though the fighting generally subsided after the ceasefire came into effect at 0:00 EET on 15 February, skirmishes and shelling continued in several parts of the conflict zone.[51]
Shelling and fighting at Debaltseve continued, as DPR leader Alexander Zakharchenko said that the ceasefire did not apply to that area.[52]
In the south of Donetsk Oblast, fighting between DPR forces and members of the Azov Battalion continued in villages near Mariupol.[52][53]
By 16 February, Minsk II seemed on the verge of collapse.[54][55]
Separatists continued a heavy assault on Debaltseve.
Both sides said that they would not withdraw heavy weaponry as specified by the agreement whilst fighting in Debaltseve was ongoing.[56]
Reuters described the ceasefire as "stillborn" in Debaltseve.[57]
Ukrainian forces were forced to retreat from Debaltseve on 18 February, leaving separatist forces in control of the city.[58]"
Minsk II, 2015: "In the week after the fall of Debaltseve to pro-Russian forces, fighting in the conflict zone abated.[59]
DPR and LPR forces began to withdraw artillery from the front lines as specified by Minsk II on 24 February, and Ukraine did so on 26 February.
Ukraine reported that it had suffered no casualties during 24–26 February, something that had not occurred since early January 2015.[59][60]
Minsk II, 2015: "The parliament of Ukraine approved a law on "special status" for Donbas on 17 March, as specified by Minsk II.[61]
Later, in 2019, Ukraine's parliament voted to extend regulations giving limited self-rule to separatist-controlled eastern regions, a prerequisite for a deal to settle the five-year conflict there.[62]
The law was immediately criticized by Ukrainian politicians, separatist leaders, and the Russian government.
Radical Party leader Oleh Lyashko said that the law was 'a vote for de facto recognition of the Russian occupation in Donbas'.
Vice-parliamentary speaker Andriy Parubiy said that law was 'not for Putin or the occupiers', but to show Europe that Ukraine was willing to adhere to Minsk II.
Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said that the law was a 'sharp departure from the Minsk agreements' because it demanded local elections under Ukrainian jurisdiction.[61]"
Minsk II, 2015: "Representatives of the LPR and DPR said that the law was a "one-sided" modification of Minsk II, and that the agreement had been rendered void by this modification.[63]
DPR leader Alexander Zakharchenko said that any change to Minsk II that had not been mutually agreed upon was 'legally void', and that 'nothing that had been agreed upon in Minsk has been carried out'.
He added that the DPR 'must occupy all of the cities in which the referendum took place, and then politically cooperate [with Ukraine] as equal partners'.[64]
Despite this, representatives of the DPR and LPR continued to forward peace proposals to the Trilateral Contact Group on Ukraine.[65]"
Minsk II, 2015: "Ukrainian defence minister Stepan Poltorak said on 8 June 2015 that over 100 soldiers and at least 50 civilians had been killed since Minsk II came into effect.
According to him, pro-Russian forces had violated the truce more than 4,000 times.[66]
Contrary to the agreement, DPR representative Denis Pushilin and LPR representative Vladislav Deinego said on 10 June 2015 that their republics 'would like to join the Russian Federation'.
In addition, they said that they consider Crimea, which was annexed by Russia in March 2014, to be part of Russia.[67]"
Minsk II, 2016: "American Defense Department official Michael Carpenter said on 2 March 2016 that at least 430 Ukrainian soldiers had died since the signing of Minsk II, that Russia maintained 'command-and-control links' over the DPR and LPR, and that Russia was 'pouring heavy weapons' into the Donbas.[68]
Deputy head of the OSCE mission in Ukraine Alexander Hug said on 25 March 2016 that the OSCE had observed 'armed people with Russian insignia' fighting in Donbas from the beginning of the conflict, that they had talked to prisoners who said they were Russian soldiers, and that they had seen 'tire tracks, not the vehicles themselves, but the tracks of vehicles crossing the [Russo-Ukrainian] border'.[69]"
Minsk II, 2022: "A Normandy Format meeting was planned between Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France in Paris on 26 January 2022.[74][75]
Ukraine fulfilled Russia's condition for a meeting in Paris and decided to withdraw from Parliament the controversial draft law on the reintegration of the Crimea and Donbas region, because the law was contrary to the Minsk II.[76][77]"
Minsk II, 2022: "Following the fall of Debaltseve in February 2015, about one-third of the Donbas region remained in separatist control.[91]
A few days before the 2022 Russian invasion, French president Emmanuel Macron and US Secretary of State Antony Blinken opined that the Minsk agreements were "the way forward" to end the conflict in Donbas.
Blinken added that it was an incomplete step as there were other outstanding issues.[92]
The aim of the Russian intervention in Donbas was to establish pro-Russian governments that, upon reincorporation into Ukraine, would facilitate Russian inference in Ukrainian politics.[93]
The agreements were thus highly favorable to the Russian side, as their implementation would accomplish these goals.[94]"
Minsk II, 2021: "In a June 2021 interview, Vladislav Surkov, Putin's aide for Ukraine policy from 2013 to 2020, who was removed from his role in February 2020, said that Ukraine 'can be reformed as a confederation, with a lot of freedom for the regions to decide things by themselves'.
He said the country would be severed by the 'geopolitical gravity' between Russia and the West, describing the Minsk agreements as an act that 'legitimized the first division of Ukraine' in a 'reconquest', 'the first open geopolitical counter-attack by Russia [against the West]'.[97]
In October 2021, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that 'if the Americans are genuinely prepared to support the implementation of the Minsk Agreements, this issue can be settled very quickly.'[98]"
Minsk II, 2021: "In December 2021, Chief of General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces Valery Gerasimov said that 'Kyiv is not fulfilling the Minsk Agreements.
The Ukrainian armed forces are touting that they have started to employ US-supplied Javelin anti-tank missile systems in Donbas and are also using Turkish reconnaissance/strike drones.
As a result, the already tense situation in the east of that country is further deteriorating.'[110]"
Minsk II, 2022: "In January 2022, Oleksiy Danilov, the secretary of Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council, said that 'The fulfillment of the Minsk agreement means the country’s destruction.
When they were signed under the Russian gun barrel — and the German and the French watched — it was already clear for all rational people that it’s impossible to implement those documents.'[111]"
Minsk II, 2022: "On 15 February 2022, the Russian Duma voted to appeal to President Putin to recognise the self-proclaimed LPR and DPR.[113]
The next day, a Russian government spokesman acknowledged that officially recognizing the Donbas republics would not be in keeping with the Minsk agreements.[114]
However, he also told journalists that Putin's priority in regulating the situation in Donbas is the implementation of mechanisms adopted under those agreements.[115]
Russia went on to officially recognize the self-proclaimed Luhansk and Donetsk people's republics on 21 February 2022.
[9] Following that decision, on 22 February 2022, President Putin said that the Minsk agreements "no longer existed", and that Ukraine, not Russia, was to blame for their collapse, accusing Ukraine of genocide in Donbas in his comments[116][117][10] – a statement largely seen as baseless and factually wrong by the wider world, academics studying genocide, and the United Nations.[118][119][120][121]
Russia then invaded Ukraine on 24 February 2022.[11]"
Minsk III? "On 24 August 2022, after a meeting of the Crimea Platform, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy stated that current front lines in the war would not be frozen. 'At the point where we are, we are not ready for a ceasefire.
We explained that there will be no Minsk-3, Minsk-5, or Minsk-7.
We will not play these games, we have lost part of our territories this way … it is a trap'.[122]
Angela Merkel said in 2022 that the agreement had been 'an attempt to give Ukraine time' and that Ukraine used it to strengthen its armed forces.[123]"

Robert DeLong: "But I love how you speak out of one side of your mouth about Trump, and your love & belief in him, while out the other side of your mouth you go completely against what he is publicly saying about Ukraine.
You are one confused person.
You unwillingness to acknowledge the totality of the causation of this conflict, means that you harbor some sort of bias towards Russia, which I understand completely, because I fell for that myself."

Sorry, FRiend, but the confusion is 100% yours, not mine, and the reason for that is simple: you've been guzzling Russian propaganda Kool-Aide, so you mind is fried beyond normal functioning.
Now, the first thing you MUST do is sober up, stop drinking the damn Kool-Aide!

As for Trump, did you forget that Obama only sent blankets & other non-lethal aid to Ukraine, while Trump sent Javelins and other war-winning weapons?
Obviously, Trump believes he would have prevented Vlad's second invasion and could now quickly stop it, but Trump has not called for an end to Ukraine aid, to my knowledge.

Robert DeLong: "The separatists talks began after the physical attacks against them, not before.
Just in case you try to use that lie as justification."

That is a total 100% Russian propaganda lie, just the kind of lie you desperately need to stop swallowing!
The truth is, before 2014, pro-Russians ruled Ukraine and then the Maidan Revolution caused Russian stooge Yanukovych to flee to Russia.
Vlad the Invader used that as his excuse to invade, and the rest is a war of invasion by Russia against Ukraine.

"On 22 February, the protesters were reported to be in control of Kyiv.[72][73]
The parliament voted 328–0 in favour of removing Yanukovych from office and scheduled new presidential elections for 25 May.[74]

Parliament named its chairman, Oleksandr Turchynov, as interim president on 23 February.[75]
A warrant for the arrest of Yanukovych was issued by the new government on 24 February.[76]
Over the next few days, Russian nationalist politicians and activists organized rallies in Crimea and urged the Russian government to help defend the region from advancing "fascists" from the rest of Ukraine....[77]"

"...Following the Ukrainian revolution, a secession crisis began in the Crimean Peninsula.
On 1 March 2014, Yanukovych put into writing his request that President Putin of Russia send military forces "to establish legitimacy, peace, law and order, stability and defending the people of Ukraine".[294]
On the same day, Putin requested and received authorization from the Russian parliament to deploy troops to Ukraine in response to the crisis.[261]
Russian troops accordingly mobilized throughout Crimea and the southeast of Ukraine.
By 2 March, Russian troops had complete control over Crimea.[295][296][297]"

Yanukovych committed treason against his own country.

Robert DeLong: "Apparently you do since you once stated that the debt may be a problem.
There is no may about it, and you are only increasing that problem by supporting the creation of more debt to fund, not only the war, but the day-to-day finances of Ukraine.
A foreign nation that is no better, in reality, than the nation they are fighting."

Our national debt today is as relatively high, compared to GDP, as it was at the end of the Second World War, in 1945.
Many nations have suffered much higher debts and eventually paid them down, as we did after 1945.
Today our debt to GDP ratio is 13th in the world, less than Japan, Italy and Greece, roughly equal to Portugal and Singapore, slightly higher than France.

I've said before -- and you continue to ignore the fact -- that $trillions in Federal spending are nothing more than Democrat vote-buying schemes.
As these are reduced or eliminated the Federal budget will come into balance with plenty of money for essentials like national defense.

As for who is right and who is wrong in Ukraine, there is no moral equivalency, no gray area, no confusion possible.
Vlad the Invader invaded Ukraine!!
That's the only fact that matters, everything else is just nonsense and Russian propaganda.
Vlad has to be defeated because if he's not, the consequences will be horrendous for the world as a whole.
That's why 54 nations -- 30 NATO countries plus 24 others have sent military aid to Ukraine.

Robert DeLong: "So, why do you insist on saddling the families of America with more debt?
Especially our children who are already having a hard time making a life for themselves as it is.
They will be the first generation that will not see a better life than their parents.
This is the result of our our current & past acts of adventurism have created for the children of this nation.
What a great disservice we have done, and I for one feel horrible that our continued mis adventurism, at their expense, has done to them."

Sorry, but all that is just blithering nonsense, mindless babbling of meaningless words, utterly untrue in any real sense.
The fact is that everyone's life today can be infinitely better than it was 50 or 100 years ago, in terms of material well-being and good health, if, if, if they will work as hard and dedicated as their parents and great grandparents did back then.
The problem is far too many will not, but instead take an extended childhood, well into their 20s & beyond, living la vida loca, spending their money and ruining their health.
This is not necessarily the government's fault, or responsibility to fix.

The fact is that young people who get good educations, work hard, get married before having children and remain true to their families, they can live a wonderful life beyond the wildest dreams of previous generations.

Robert DeLong: "That is happening because we are embroiled in this conflict.
Continuing down this path, only increases our debt, as well as, weakening ourselves even more so.
Furthermore, it increases that time needed to repair the damage, that grows with each passing day of our involvement."

Again, that's total nonsense.
What increases the debt is wasteful social spending -- "Covid Relief", "Green New Deal", "College Loan forgiveness" -- there are $trillions in wasted dollars.
National defense is a bare necessity, skimped on only at great pearl for the future.

Robert DeLong: "If Republicans start rejecting continued involvement, then the Democrats are faced with either joining, or continuing on their own.
If they choose the latter, then they become the owners of the results."

By their very natures, Democrats are fickle & feckless as leaves in the political winds.
Their strong support for Ukraine today will end on the day they can figure out how to blame Republicans for failure.
They don't care what happens, so long as it's Republicans' fault, and you have a very similar mind-set.
That makes me wonder how truly conservative and/or Republican you are.

Robert DeLong: "In the meantime, our refusal to seek a peaceful settlement before Putin launched the invasion, has opened the door for China to make inroads by being the one to broker a peaceful resolution, that we had refused to do from the start."

Somehow you totally forget that Vlad the Invader has invaded Ukraine twice, both times when Democrats were in charge in Washington, DC, both times because Vlad perceived American and western weakness in our leadership and took advantage.

China will not "broker" anything in Ukraine.
What the Xi-snake will do instead is turn Vlad's Russia into another client, like Little Kim in North Korea.
Russia will become China's raw materials pantry, and Vlad will do what the Xi-snake wants him to.

All of this was Vlad's choice, beginning back in the early 2000s, when he took Russia off its path to NATO membership and decided to make NATO his enemy, China his bosom-buddies ally.
It was Vlad's choice, nothing we did could stop or reverse that.

Robert DeLong: "You facilitated this opening with your insistence to not seek out a resolution prior to invasion, and then after invasion taking the stance that entirely blames Putin, when there were indeed extenuating circumstances you chose to ignore. "

Naw, there were no "extenuating circumstances" -- none, zero, zilch, nada extenuating.
It was naked, raw, pure military aggression exactly equivalent to Hitler's invasions of Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland in the late 1930s.
Vlad's reasons and language -- those "extenuating circumstances" -- are even the same as Hitler's.

Robert DeLong: "You also chose to ignore that Putin went in very soft in the beginning.
Which may have been a last ditch attempt to give the U.S., one final chance to intervene to provide a resolution to the conflict.
Instead, you took this as a sign of Russia's weakness, thus stoking the notion that we were winning this conflict and that we need to make the most f this opportunity.
Problem is, that none of the NATO aligned nations really wanted to fight this proxy war, except for the U.S. & this administration in particular."

And the Russian propaganda B.S. just never stops with you does it, FRiend?
Your claim that Putin "went in soft" is pure nonsense.
Vlad's 2022 invasion force was nearly 200,000 out of Russia's 1.5 million available forces and he has since mobilized another half million.
So there was nothing "soft" about Vlad's numbers and certainly not about the destruction in Ukraine, now put at circa $400 billion in property and up to 30,000 civilian lives.

The fact that Vlad's invasion was less than 100% successful is a miracle from God, nothing less, but despite serious set-backs, Vlad still controls about 50% more of Ukraine today than he did in January 2022.

The Ukraine war has amply demonstrated certain weakness in the Russian military -- today they are more like the Soviet armies which tried to invade Finland in 1939, than like the victorious armies which defeated Nazi Germany in 1945.
But it's anybody's guess which way they go from here.

As for NATO, 30 NATO countries plus 24 others have sent aid to Ukraine.
In total, combined, aid from the EU is roughly equal to American aid, so we are not in this alone, by a long shot.

Robert DeLong: "You failed to recognize it as the cluster-**** that it was then & eventually would become even more so, the more it was escalated & expanded in size & scope."

And still your babbling nonsense blathers on and on.
War is always a cluster-****, where people are getting killed & maimed, vast property destruction, best laid plans that go awry, as soon as the enemy responds.
In Ukraine, in particular, all of the evidence we have says Ukrainians have used our aid effectively and revealed the Russians to be less than the 10 foot tall giants they were said to be.

Robert DeLong: "You just blindly rushed in supporting this conflict with the sole justification of; Putin invaded Ukraine. "

There's nothing "blind" about it, but that's exactly right, Putin invaded Ukraine, and nothing else matters from our perspective.
Vlad has to be defeated, period, end of discussion.

Robert DeLong: "Your support for our involvement, only furthers the erosion of our nation's strength & abilities.
The attitude you adopted was, consequences be damned regarding our involvement in yet another protracted war, because you failed to think what our involvement would result in if we lost yet another conflict.
A conflict that was doomed to fail on so many levels, which you refused to take into consideration, because bravado consumed you clouding your thinking."

And your nonsense just keeps coming...
First of all, muscles are not weakened by being exercised.
Vlad the Invader is now exercising his forces in the biggest challenge they've faced since 1945 and they will grow stronger as a result.
But they may never grow stronger than determined Ukraine & western resistance.

As for whether we lose this conflict that is your choice, and you seem eager to embrace it.
I don't think it's in the least inevitable.
Indeed, Ukrainian victory is inevitable, if we stay strong with them, imho.

Robert DeLong: "We are now facing what we should do next.
Do we offer up a peace plan ourselves?
Do we make the decision to get more involved by sending our men, women, along with the transgenders, into the conflict to salvage our reputation around the world?
How many are you willing to sacrifice?
Are you willing to take it to the nuclear stage if need be?
When will you wake up & realize that this is evil at work?
When will you stop supporting the evil that is destroying our good name, along with our nation?"

That is all 100% total rubbish and nonsense, questions you should fly to Moscow -- assuming you're not already there -- and ask Vlad the Invader himself.
Those are questions for him, not for us.
Our job is simply to oppose, with whatever we can, his insanity.

Our Democrat administration is not going to send US forces into Ukraine, but it has and will continue to beef up our defenses in nearby NATO countries like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey.
And then there are Finland and Sweden now on our side too.
Vlad the Invader has united Europe and the west like no other no other leader, ever, not even old "Uncle Joe" Stalin could do that.

wardaddy: "You’re as delusional confirmation biased about Ukraine Russia conflict as you are Dixie
Not surprising"

So, I looked up that word, "delusional" in the dictionary and you know what it said? "Lost Cause" is the very definition of delusional.

Funny thing about that.

Firehath: "constitution ( reformation / protestant ) nationalism
vs
marxist / diversity nationalism
you don’t see the difference"

Of course, I do, but what I don't see is your point here.

You understand, I hope, there was an actual man named Karl Marx and he wrote books on communism, defining that word for his followers to this day.

Other radicals have taken Marx's ideas and modified or adapted them to their own situations, such that the "revolution of the proletariats" has morphed into many other sub-groups -- racial, ethnic, gender, anything they can grab hold of to stir up discontent and violence.

I'm only saying, calling such people "Marxists" is a bit of a stretch, though they are sometimes as radical and destructive as Marxists ever were.

Robert DeLong: "Maine State Senator Eric Brakey dropped truth bombs about the overthrow of the Democracy of Ukraine, Nazis, Joe Biden, and fake news:"

But there is nothing truthful in what Brakey said, it's all just Russian propaganda lies, made up out of thin air.
He only throws out one accusation after another, without a bit of evidence to support them.

Robert DeLong: "The separatists talks began after the physical attacks against them, not before. Just in case you try to use that lie as justification."

That is a total 100% Russian propaganda lie, just the kind of lie you desperately need to stop swallowing! The truth is, before 2014, pro-Russians ruled Ukraine and then the Maidan Revolution caused Russian stooge Yanukovych to flee to Russia.

Vlad the Invader used that as his excuse to invade, and the rest is a war of invasion by Russia against Ukraine.

"On 22 February, the protesters were reported to be in control of Kyiv.[72][73]

The parliament voted 328–0 in favour of removing Yanukovych from office and scheduled new presidential elections for 25 May.[74]

Parliament named its chairman, Oleksandr Turchynov, as interim president on 23 February.[75]

A warrant for the arrest of Yanukovych was issued by the new government on 24 February.[76]

Over the next few days, Russian nationalist politicians and activists organized rallies in Crimea and urged the Russian government to help defend the region from advancing "fascists" from the rest of Ukraine....[77]"

Following the Ukrainian revolution, a secession crisis began in the Crimean Peninsula. On 1 March 2014, Yanukovych put into writing his request that President Putin of Russia send military forces "to establish legitimacy, peace, law and order, stability and defending the people of Ukraine".[294] On the same day, Putin requested and received authorization from the Russian parliament to deploy troops to Ukraine in response to the crisis.[261] Russian troops accordingly mobilized throughout Crimea and the southeast of Ukraine. By 2 March, Russian troops had complete control over Crimea.[295][296][297]"

Yanukovych committed treason against his own country.

You're an idiot. First off I was speaking about the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine when I was speaking of separatist talks. Already admitted that Russia seized the Crimean in retaliation for the coup d'etat of the duly elected president of Ukraine. What you described was absolutely factual, but you fail to see that, what is described is a coup d'etat. A mob had captured the capitol city of Ukraine. The Democrats try to claim Trump supporters seized the capitol city of the U.S. We did not try to stage a coup, but that was a real coup you saw in Ukraine. You also skip right over the fact that neither Putin or the Russian forces moved to capture anything beyond the Crimea at that point in time.

While there is truth in there, there is also propaganda as well. Don't know who wrote this up in Wikipedia, but it was not an American writer. I can tell because they used the word colour, which is not how an American spells that word, color.

If you would have bothered to watch the short video I linked you to, you wouldn't make such stupid statements, But then again you are not very bright, because you refuse to look at anything that might make you think differently.

Yanukovych wanted to sign both the EU trade agreement, as well as, the Russian trade agreement.

But the EU said that they would NOT accept his EU agreement if he also made an agreement with any other country. Yanukovych said he felt like a bride who shows up at the alter to learn that there is a prenuptial agreement, that was never discussed previously, she must sign. Which is why he didn't sign the EU agreement.

As the lawful president of Ukraine, Yanukovych absolutely had the right to call in help to restore order in his nation because he didn't have the resources to do so.

There are those who contend that it wasn't the Ukrainian resources who fired upon the protestors,. They claim it was Nazis who did it, you know, like our Antifa trouble makers here. Sadly we will never probably learn the truth as to who actually started the violence. But they weren't Russian forces. They were either Ukrainian forces, or the Nazis.

While truth is the first thing that is lost when unrest breaks out, we know for certain that the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine had been experiencing terroristic attacks.

I used this example to counter your claims regarding "the long history of Ukraine." The long history of Ukraine does not provide evidence that Vlad the Invader has any right to invade and annex Ukrainian provinces.

But, th e long history of Ukraine, is that there is no long history of Ukraine. Ukraine's history is that it was in the hands on one group after another for hundred's of years, and the bounders kept changing as well.

This conversation is over, because you are like a leftist, a thick-headed dolt who refuses to learn anything, because you think you are so smart you know it all. Like a leftist you also love to cherry pick information, while ignoring relevant information. Like I said, Ukraine did this to themselves by adopting hate to try subjugate tyranny over a major part of the population in eastern Ukraine. Many Russians were just as unhappy about Soviet Rule too. Which is probably why those Russian speaking Ukrainians preferred to live in Ukraine.

I have no love for Putin, but I also equally have no love for Zelenskyy either. Which is why I support not supporting either side, and with all the problems this nation has, that lack of support becomes magnified by a factor of 100.

Wish I could say it has been a pleasure talking to you, but that would be a lie, and I will not start lying to you now.

Hope the best for you, and I will pray that you grow up, and start living in, or at least seeing, reality.

Prove that, all you are providing is your opinion. He said he has the proof to back up his statements. You are a fool.

Robert DeLong: "You're an idiot. First off I was speaking about the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine when I was speaking of separatist talks."

Idiot or not, the fact remains that pro-Russians ruled in Ukraine and the Donbas before the 2014 EuroMaidan Revolution, so there were no separatist talks then. Separatists only began to wage war on their own country (treason by definition) after Vlad invaded Crimea and the Donbas.

Robert DeLong: "Already admitted that Russia seized the Crimean in retaliation for the coup d'etat of the duly elected president of Ukraine.
What you described was absolutely factual, but you fail to see that, what is described is a coup d'etat.
A mob had captured the capitol city of Ukraine...
...that was a real coup you saw in Ukraine."

The treasonous pro-Russian Ukraine president Yanukovych was removed from office by a vote in the Ukraine parliament of 328 to 0.
That is is not a "coup", that is lawful impeachment of a treasonous president.

Robert DeLong: "You also skip right over the fact that neither Putin or the Russian forces moved to capture anything beyond the Crimea at that point in time."

Well, except for Donetsk and Luhansk -- did they fail to teach you about that in your Russian propaganda school?

Robert DeLong: "Don't know who wrote this up in Wikipedia, but it was not an American writer. I can tell because they used the word colour, which is not how an American spells that word, color."

And that is important to you for what reason?

Robert DeLong: "If you would have bothered to watch the short video I linked you to, you wouldn't make such stupid statements, But then again you are not very bright, because you refuse to look at anything that might make you think differently."

I listened to the first few minutes of it and it was all nonsense -- unfiltered Russian propaganda with no evidence, none, zero, nada evidence to support his ludicrous claims.

Robert DeLong: "But the EU said that they would NOT accept his EU agreement if he also made an agreement with any other country.
Yanukovych said he felt like a bride who shows up at the alter to learn that there is a prenuptial agreement, that was never discussed previously, she must sign.
Which is why he didn't sign the EU agreement."

I doubt if Yanukovych was truly surprised to learn the details of his EU agreement, since he was in on it from the beginning.
And why would he suddenly need a new agreement with Russia? What was wrong with the old one?

Robert DeLong: "As the lawful president of Ukraine, Yanukovych absolutely had the right to call in help to restore order in his nation because he didn't have the resources to do so."

And the Ukraine parliament had the absolute right to remove Yanukovych from office for treason against his country.
We call that impeachment, not a coup.

Robert DeLong: "There are those who contend that it wasn't the Ukrainian resources who fired upon the protestors,.
They claim it was Nazis who did it, you know, like our Antifa trouble makers here.
Sadly we will never probably learn the truth as to who actually started the violence.
But they weren't Russian forces.
They were either Ukrainian forces, or the Nazis."

Nonsense. The EuroMaidan Revolution was mostly peaceful, and when it turned violent, there were deaths on both sides.
Who caused those deaths is not known, but your repeated use of the word "Nazi" shows us you are a graduate of Russian propaganda school, and therefore, you are a dedicated liar.

Robert DeLong: "While truth is the first thing that is lost when unrest breaks out, we know for certain that the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine had been experiencing terroristic attacks."

The only terrorists in the Donbas were those treasonous Russian speakers who joined with Vlad's invasion forces to attack Ukrainians there.
With Vlad's substantial help they defeated Ukrainian forces in large areas of Donetsk and Luhansk.

Now am out of time, must run, will come back to this later.

Idiot or not, the fact remains that pro-Russians ruled in Ukraine and the Donbas before the 2014 EuroMaidan Revolution, so there were no separatist talks then. Separatists only began to wage war on their own country (treason by definition) after Vlad invaded Crimea and the Donbas.

Here's another fact for you, dummy. He was duly elected in what all observers said was a fair & free election. He wasn't elected by some sort of armed threat by the Russian military, or any Russian gang of thugs.

No, that is propaganda. The Nazis, whom you no doubt deny their existence, started waging a terror campaign against them. You have no clue what really went on there. You only have propaganda that you spew forth like projectile vomit. Some day you will learn the truth. Refer to Luke 8:17.

Robert DeLong: "Some day you will learn the truth."

The truth of this particular matter is that Vlad invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk, totally illegally, and therefore Vlad is evil and must be defeated.
There's no other truth here that matters, only lying Russian propaganda, which you have obviously swallowed and regurgitate undigested, unfiltered raw sewage.
It's made you sick in your head and is unfit for human consumption.

You need to get rid of it.

Those who do not know history, are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past

But reality is catching up, and you will be taken by surprise. Then you will realize what I have trying to warn you away from, but it will be too late then. Your family, along with the rest of us, will suffer as a result of your misplaced intelligence that you believe you possess.

Robert DeLong: "But, th e long history of Ukraine, is that there is no long history of Ukraine.
Ukraine's history is that it was in the hands on one group after another for hundred's of years, and the bounders kept changing as well."

The same could be said of many countries, but it's totally irrelevant to Ukraine today.
In 1991 Ukraine's current borders were recognized by the international community, including Russia.
That's the only thing that matters today.

Robert DeLong: "This conversation is over... "

Somehow, I doubt that.

Robert DeLong: "...you are like a leftist, a thick-headed dolt who refuses to learn anything, because you think you are so smart you know it all.
Like a leftist you also love to cherry pick information, while ignoring relevant information."

Well, first, you are here simply describing yourself and projecting your own nature onto me, incorrectly.
Second, there is no relevant information that justifies Vlad the Invader's assaults on Ukraine -- none, zero, zip, nada, zilch "relevant information" to justify Vlad, certainly none you've presented.

Robert DeLong: "Like I said, Ukraine did this to themselves by adopting hate to try subjugate tyranny over a major part of the population in eastern Ukraine."

And that's a total 100% lie, because prior to the EuroMaidan revolution in 2014, Ukraine was ruled by pro-Russian stooges, Yanukovych the president.
In February 2022, Yanukovych fled to Russia and committed treason, inviting Vlad the Invader to invade Ukraine!
Ukraine's parliament lawfully voted unanimously (328 to 0) to remove the traitor Yanukovych from office.
Yanukovych claimed that was a "coup", but it was 100% lawful and Yanukovych was a 100% traitor to Ukraine, as are those Ukrainians, whatever their language, who've waged war against their own country.

Robert DeLong: "I have no love for Putin, but I also equally have no love for Zelenskyy either.
Which is why I support not supporting either side, and with all the problems this nation has, that lack of support becomes magnified by a factor of 100."

Nonsense, you've done nothing but make excuses for Vlad the Invader's outrageous, illegal invasions -- if that's not "love", it's close enough for government work.
As for Zelenskyy, he had nothing to do with events in 2014, but he has courageously led his country's defense against Vlad's Invasions.
So Zelenskyy deserves our support, as do all Ukrainians, against Russian invaders.

As for our domestic problems, I agree those are as severe as any I've seen in my now long lifetime.
Indeed, arguably, our weakness demonstrated in Afghanistan provoked Vlad the Invader to believe that now is his time to do his dirty deeds in Ukraine.
That makes us indirectly responsible for Ukraine's suffering, and therefore we have some responsibility to help them defeat Vlad the Invader.
Though that is not the main reason why we should help Ukraine, the main reason is because success in Ukraine will encourage Vlad and other aggressors to do it again, and again.

None of our domestic problems are caused by the war in Ukraine, nor are they made worse by our support for Ukraine.
And the monies involved are a pittance compared to the multiple $trillions in wasteful Democrat spending.
When those are brought under control (or eliminated) the result will be plenty of money available for bare necessities like national defense and debt reductions.

Robert DeLong: "Wish I could say it has been a pleasure talking to you, but that would be a lie, and I will not start lying to you now.
Hope the best for you, and I will pray that you grow up, and start living in, or at least seeing, reality."

You are a dedicated propagandist for Vlad the Invader, I don't know how that happened, but you need to fix it because it's a sickness which will rot your brain in other aspects too.

BJK post #209: "But there is nothing truthful in what Brakey said, it's all just Russian propaganda lies, made up out of thin air.
He only throws out one accusation after another, without a bit of evidence to support them."

Robert DeLong: "Prove that, all you are providing is your opinion.
He said he has the proof to back up his statements.
You are a fool."

I watched several minutes of that video and all I saw was one ridiculous accusation after another, with no evidence presented to support any of it.

So, if you know of some facts which support his accusations, and your beliefs, then please, feel free to present them.
I'd be very interested to learn just what is it that has so fried your brain, FRiend.

Robert DeLong: "Here's another fact for you, dummy. He was duly elected in what all observers said was a fair & free election.
He wasn't elected by some sort of armed threat by the Russian military, or any Russian gang of thugs."

Maybe... legitimate in the same way as our own 2020 election of Pres. Barak Hussein O'Biden.
Regardless, it's irrelevant because Ukraine's pro-Russian stooge, Yanukovych was lawfully impeached 328 to 0, after fleeing to Russia and committing treason against his own country.

Robert DeLong: "No, that is propaganda.
The Nazis, whom you no doubt deny their existence, started waging a terror campaign against them.
You have no clue what really went on there."

I've seen no evidence, and you presented none here, of your so-called Ukrainian "Nazis" committing any acts which might somehow justify Vlad the Invader's invasions of Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk.
Certainly, there were no "Nazis" involved in Ukraine's parliament's impeachment of the traitor Yanukovych.

Robert DeLong: "Some day you will learn the truth. Refer to Luke 8:17."

Here's the truth of this matter: nothing in the Bible justifies Vlad the Invader's assaults on Ukraine, or encourages us to ignore Ukraine's suffering.

Robert DeLong: "But reality is catching up, and you will be taken by surprise.
Then you will realize what I have trying to warn you away from, but it will be too late then.
Your family, along with the rest of us, will suffer as a result of your misplaced intelligence that you believe you possess."

And now you're replacing any attempt at rational conversation with vague & ominous sounding threats -- is that the Russian mentality which has rotted your brain, where did you learn that?

What's wrong with presenting facts that matter and arguments which make sense.
Do you really have none of those?

correction: "February 2022, Yanukovych fled" should, obviously, read February 2014. My bad.