Posted on 03/16/2023 11:51:00 AM PDT by Nextrush
MK Avigdor Liberman, head of the right-wing secularist Yisrael Beytenu party, expresses concern that religion is gaining too much sway in Israel during the joint press conference with other opposition chiefs.
"If we do not separate religion and state, we will not have a state", says the longtime critic of the ultra-Orthodox's influence on the state.
"Today it is clear that the main engine for all this crazy legislation, the most rigid, the most extreme element that is not ready for any compromise are the Shas and United Torah Judaism parties," Liberman adds, singling out the Knesset's two ultra-Orthodox factions.
"Their belligerent conduct in the Knesset leads to damage to the State of Israel, the IDF and Judaism."...
(Excerpt) Read more at timesofisrael.com ...
Mr. Liberman is an Israeli politician who is an immigrant from Russia who was born in the USSR in 1958.
He has an obsession with "separation of religion and state" I don't think he got the USSR out of his brain when he came to Israel.
The US needs separation of school and state.
He puts himself right out of the antisemitism closet. Israel is the Jewish homeland and the Jewish Promised land. What the only place on earth where Jews have their own little country. Israel is not going down line many European countries HK and regrettably USA and Canada are headed.
Liberman lies. Oddly enough, the ultraOrthodox political parties have repeatedly come to agreement with even Leftist political factions. It is the National Religious parties (comparable to American Modern Orthodox) that saw an upsurge in support and resist Liberman and the Left’s Californification of Israel.
When I see all the rainbow flags in these protest marches going on in Israel right now some of which have intruded on religious neighborhoods I think you can see how the lines are drawn.
Without a religion — one specific religion — there is no rationale for having an Israel. It’s a bit daft to suggest religion and government aren’t somehow entangled there.
The relationship between the Jewish State and the Jewish Religion is different than that of the United States and the many religions of its citizenry, and Russia and the Greek Orthodox Church. And that’s different than the relationship between Pakistan or Saudi Arabia and Islam, or Rome and the Vatican. Liberman is simplistic, biased, and, well...stupid.
Where the very identity of the state in question is intrinsic to a particular religion, you can’t just separate them. There must be a modus vivendi between them, one that synthesizes that intrinsic identity and tolerance for dissent of and by, those who don’t care for that religion or some of its practices.
The issue as I see it (as a reform Jew) is that the orthodox political parties are like the evangelical groups in the US. Some of us believe the words of scripture can be open for debate. That is the essence of Torah Talmud study, but the most orthodox (in Israel for example) want to take the Torah scripture and allow it to become the law of the State.
An example might be that elevators in Israel are set in Sabath mode on Saturday, while some institutions only set one elevator to Sabath mode. Which is correct? Should it be a law that all elevators need to be in Sabath mode on the Sabath.
Of course the orthodox in the state may not even want me to visit with my views.
(1) Citizens of the USSR are guaranteed freedom of conscience, that is, the right to profess or not to profess any religion, and to conduct religious worship or atheistic propaganda. Incitement of hostility or hatred on religious grounds is prohibited.
(2) In the USSR, the church is separated from the state, and the school from the church.
-Constitution of the USSR
BTW: It is NOT in the US Constitution.
I’m a big supporter of Israel. But their governmental system seems to be a recipe for division and constant upheaval.
Like ours is today, except ours is because the Constitution and the Laws of the nation are being ignored and perverted.
The validity of scripture is never debated in the Talmud, just the interpretation. The Orthodox want stores closed on Sabbath, but there is no law to that effect; it just depends on the area. Most stores are closed in cities like Jerusalem with a heavy Orthodox presence. In Tel Aviv and Haifa, not so much. It depends on market forces, really. Staying open on Shabbat in Jerusalem would lose more customers for a business than they would gain on a Shabbat day in Meah Shearim, so even if the store owner is not religious, the store is closed, and the restaurant is kosher. In Tel Aviv, you’ll have plenty of customers, so the stores stay open, and pig is on the menu in the restaurants. No theocracy, just a compromise based on the necessity of co-existing.
The Orthodox are more cosmopolitan and open-minded than you would guess.
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