Posted on 03/02/2023 6:42:55 AM PST by UMCRevMom@aol.com
Russia lost the war to make Ukraine a vassal state back in March when they retreated from Kyiv.
They lost their plan B to take the black sea Coast in june with their attack on Mykolaiv repulsed.
They lost their plan C to take left bank Ukraine ie east of the Dnieper, in September when they were repulsed from Kharkiv.
They nearly lost the land bridge to Crimea with the loss of Kherson in November.
But it’s not over yet. Putin is desperate for a win, any win.
IvanPreston on 24th December
https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/4118565/posts?page=41#41
“I watched Alex and Alexander discuss Soledar yesterday. It’s mostly in Russian hands. Next, all of Bakhmut. “
Wait - on 14th December 2022 you wrote
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4116271/posts?page=32#32
“Bakhmut is in Russian hands.”
And here we are on 1st March 2023, and Bakhmut ain’t in Russki hands yet. ha ha ha!!
Russia EXPRESSLY violated the Budapest Agreement which it SIGNED promising to respect Ukrainian borders, you say no one cares?? Typical Russian double-speak
the Budapest memorandum
According to the three memoranda,Russia, the US and the UK confirmed their recognition of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine becoming parties to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and effectively abandoning their nuclear arsenal to Russia and that they agreed to the following:
1. Respect the signatory’s independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.
2. Refrain from the threat or the use of force against the signatory.
3. Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by the signatory of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
4. Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they “should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used”.
5. Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against the signatory.
___________
Russia signed this and has violated protocols 1,2,3 and 5
Russia promised to not only respect Ukraine’s 1994 borders, including Crimea, but also
to
1. Refrain from the threat or the use of force against the signatory.
And to
2. Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by the signatory of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
Russia has violated every one of those agreements which were made with Ukraine with the only condition from Ukraine being Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.
Russia reneges on international law and promises
Nice fake news. You got a link?
Or do you guys in St Petersburg use too much Photoshop?
Who are you referring to when you say Towel Head?
Well stated. Saying NATO is a defensive alliance is like saying Ukraine is a democracy.
FR is full of Ukrainian apologists who refuse to acknowledge any fact in Russias favor. It is to them as easy as the DNC MSM telling them the truth. FR is a mere shadow of itself 15 years ago when people would look for facts. Many arejust botzoids.
Are you a Chechen?
That’s right, both Finland and Sweden have suddenly abandoned over 80 years of neutrality and asked to join NATO not because of a revival of Russian aggression but instead because they both now have territorial ambitions against Russia? 🙄
and this is how you free a city in Asia....Russians are so delicate during war....real p@ssies when it comes to destroying and freeing cities... They need to take lessons from hmmmm, us......
Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 without the pretext of NATO expansion. Russia’s invasion has nothing to do with threats to Russia but Russia’s refusal to accept Ukraine as an independent nation. Russia’s objection to Ukraine joining NATO is that it would lock in that independence. Russia is not the victim here.
Gosh, are you sensitive;) Turkey stuck a fork in that quicker than you can Nikita Khrushchev’s questionable gifting of Crimea in ‘54...
And while we are having at it, your history lesson forgot to mention the Bolshevik Revolution when the Cossacks declared themselves independence as Ukraine in 1917, a short lived fiasco beginning with the suprise defeat of the Russian Republic forces of the Kiev District - aha! Ukraine borne from the same October Revolution upheveal by an attack and defeat of RUSSIAN forces in Kiev. 3 Soviet general secretaries were either born or raised in Ukraine: Nikita Khrushchev and Leonid Brezhnev ; and Konstantin Chernenko.
Nikita Khrushchev, in 1954, gifted Crimea to a Ukraine....
And the rest is history - Ukraine is complicated. It was a part of Russia for most of 300 years.
The fact that Ukraine’s president was installed by the USA in a color revolution (COUP) and is HOSTILE to Russia is close enough to Russia as an emeny that cannot be tolerated.
Ukraine will never be in NATO, however, it may find herself intergated into the European orbit but it will always be a part of Russia’s history and for 100 years a shared people until Obama’s Zenelski. Zenelski isn’t funny or even a good actor.
America will never send her boys and girls to die in Ukraine.
Let's debunk your second statement first - NATO did NOT say "thy would not further encroach on Russia" --> That is a flat out lie
Russia was not told nor promised about any “moving east of Germany”: - the USSR was discussing with the USA, France and the UK about allowing the Germanies to reunite. Note: the USSR, not Russia - the USSR was told not NATO troops in Eastern Germany. - at that point in 1989, the Soviet bloc was still around and there was every indication it would last a long time more, do NATO moving into those areas was not dreamed of by either side nor discussed. - so no promise was made to “Russia” about Poland, the Baltic etc joining NATO as it was not even a dream at that point - Gorbachev himself said that mo such promise was made https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/ Gorbachev and the documents show ZERO promise not to enlarge Russia behind the Headlines has published an interview with Gorbachev, who was Soviet president during the discussions and treaty negotiations concerning German reunification. The interviewer asked why Gorbachev did not “insist that the promises made to you [Gorbachev]—particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East—be legally encoded?” Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”
==================
And countries like Estonia, Latvia -- just like Finland in 2022 -- felt threatened by Putin's actions and requested to join NATO
Ukraine was not joining NATO - it had requested in 2008 along side Georgia and that request was rejected by Germany and France "for fear of provoking Russia" (i.e. exactly what you are accusing the USA of today) -- note, it was rejected in 2008
6 weeks later Putin invaded Georgia
The message is clear - countries that join the defensive alliance NATO are not invaded by Putin
countries that AREN'T in NATO are open to Putin invading them (Georgia, Ukraine) or reducing them to vassaldom (Belarus, Central Asian states)
sort of like the United States, California and Texas. As soon as they get enough Mexicans, they can break away too? Maybe we ought to stay out of Ukraine instead of orchestrating a coop and laundering money...this is what its all about. Trump shut down the laundering and you are not bright enough to realize why we are dumping money there.
Nice try. You tell half truths, or simply misleading lies.
nice try rewriting an “understanding” that NATO wouldn’t move east. As far as Crimea... that was because the Russians need a port that doesn’t freeze up.
Is Russian armed forces basically laying waste to Ukraine... yup.
Is that bad? yes
Could it have been avoided...? yes
Can it be stopped? yes
But there’s this little problem of bio-weapons labs, money laundering, bribing American officials and their families that we have to deal with.... so instead, we see Ukraine follow the path of Syria, Lebanon,Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other little democracies we tried to “help”... and sell weapons to ... and get their natural resources for our corporations. Whichever country holds or controls Odessa and the Crimea has a lot of natural gas and oil just waiting to be brought to the surface. I suppose if the Russian gave the “big guy” 10%...then all would be good.
Do yourself a favor and look up where the biggest uranium mines are...hint. Namibia and Khazikstan are up there...
Look and see how much bauxite mining and rare earth minerals there are in Vietnam. Bauxite is used to make aluminum.
We’ll be fighting for Nigerian, Ghana, and Zimbabwe democracies soon for all the Lithium to be mined....
We don’t owe the Ukrainians sh#t.
The Europeans should be paying for all this crap and maybe we can use a couple of the BILLIONS of dollars we gave the Ukrainian military.. to pay our troops so they don’t have to be on food stamps, update their living quarters... maybe buy some equipment for OUR MEN....
or just MAYBE..... pay for housing for our wounded warriors so that we don’t have to watch disfigured and injured veterans holding out a tin cup on tv commercials to get a f@#king HOUSE to live in... Maybe we need to take care of our soldiers.
And Ireland was part of England for 750 years, so by your logic the English have an even stronger claim for the reconquest of Ireland than Russia has for Ukraine. 🙄
Also, the current government of Ukraine was not installed by a coup. Regardless of the description of what happened in 2014, the current president of Ukraine was democratically elected by an overwhelming vote.
There was no promise, no agreement about central or eastern European countries joining NATO.
Gorbachev himself said do, so stop repeating that falsehood
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.