Posted on 03/02/2023 6:42:55 AM PST by UMCRevMom@aol.com
“Is Russian armed forces basically laying waste to Ukraine”
“Is”?? Your English grammar is slipping Ivan.
Putin’s forces are laying waste to Russian speaking areas in eastern 6.
Read it up for yourself at
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/
Russia was not told nor promised about any “moving east of Germany”: - the USSR was discussing with the USA, France and the UK about allowing the Germanies to reunite.
Note: the USSR, not Russia - the USSR was told not NATO troops in Eastern Germany. - at that point in 1989, the Soviet bloc was still around and there was every indication it would last a long time more, do NATO moving into those areas was not dreamed of by either side nor discussed. - so no promise was made to “Russia” about Poland, the Baltic etc joining NATO as it was not even a dream at that point - Gorbachev himself said that mo such promise was made
Gorbachev and the documents show ZERO promise not to enlarge Russia behind the Headlines has published an interview with Gorbachev, who was Soviet president during the discussions and treaty negotiations concerning German reunification. The interviewer asked why Gorbachev did not “insist that the promises made to you [Gorbachev]—particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East—be legally encoded?” Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”
Look it up for yourself. It is the factual truth that no promise leave alone agreement was made to Russia about central and eastern European countries joining NATO
Ah but the promoise that Russia would never accept a hostile nation on her boarders. NATO has enroached and no longer serves to deter the USSR. It is our Nation, the USA, that now subjugated Germany by destruction of the NORDSTREAM to be cut off from any further peaceful economic ties with Russia.
It is the Great Deception of the West, with the unmeant promises of the MINSK(s) agreements to mislead Russia as NATO sought to firmly entrench both a NATO trained Hostile army and a coup in 2014 placing our chosen man with direct ties to the NAZIs in Ukraine. By Merkel’s admission her sponshorship of the MINSK II was just a Grand Deception to give NATO time to arm a Hostile Ukraine.
The US is seeking openly to destroy the Russian nation in order to steal those riches that Russia owns.
Whether it is Obama then Biden, or NEOCONs of both parties, or the NWO or WEF’s orders to politicians in all Western nations to both distroy the US and Russia in order to make a world of Serf’s, Russia, India, China and many other nations already hostile to the United States want no part of the UN’s NWO.
The assurances make to Russian leaders may not constitute promises.
Your simple inability to see the US as a tool, or NATO as a lacky, in a series of American deceptions to mislead Russia fully constitutes the spirit of broken promises.
Obama was told several times by Putin that “THIS” Ukraine would never be accepted as a hostile military threat to Moscow.
Of coruse involvement in destroying the German NORDSTREAM by several Western allies did result in one of them seeking NATO’s protections in retrospect, and the other nation finds itself in the uncomfortable position of being home to numerous US intelligence gathering posts, thus making it a target in a NATO war with Russia... seeking to ally with NATO as a member now is not that Russian aggression is either’s problem, but rather their place in the basing of US installations deployed against Russia - they know they are now worried in a time of war with Russia that they are targets because of their current alignment with the US - NATO membership with Turkey’s acquisition is much ado about nothing. That membership is sought under the pressure of the United States.
The US administration’s political appointees are woke authoritarians who have no historical prespective, no military understanding or any respect for the military... or for those with whom they disagree - yet you Cronos make your lot in life with them - the wokes’ters hellbent on talking about the US being at War with Russia, about having been at war with Russia since 2009, and they boast about “winning a limited nuclear war with Russia”...
You may delude yourself with diplomatic unpleasantries’ such as a Promise, but you think it Grande America’s cute deceptions in total put Russia in NATOs crosshairs in a situation wholly of the making of Obama-Biden NEOCONs who desire a war with Russia... and now since Biden’s election we know of where all the talk of war with China is eminating.
So while all your references point to exactly a US policy which never negotiated with Russia in good faith.
You think that all those American and US ally deceptions aimed at tricking Russia is a Grande game like Chess. Today, you seek comfort in cheap words, further cheapened by Angela Merkel, to make the point NATO did not promise Russia they would not take over all the former Soviet Union....
Has it occured to you or the White Hut, or Brussels or Bonn or Paris or especially London that RUSSIA FINDS HERSELF IN A WAR FUNDED BY NATO WITH NO ONE THEY CAN NEGOTIATE (BECAUSE AS YOU’VE MADE CLEAR - THE WEST ARE SERIAL LIARS NOT TO BE TRUSTED). Russia has no diplomatic counterparts they trust.
Cronos - you are right that NATO make no promise in writing but NATO inferred Intent of Promises, now broken.
You are an IDIOT.
Your words are your own. That I agree to disagree with you on one point does not infer your logic. You and Cronos have a “lot” in common.
Any thoughts on what may have triggered the invasion?
Or was it completely unprovoked as argued by the MSM and other globalists?
Did US/NATO exhibit caution in the face of clear and direct warnings that this would happen if NATO kept pushing?
Did Russia have to wait for Ukraine to have active NATO bases before acting?
How many have to die before you would support a ceasefire and diplomatic talks?
Is there a limit your bloodlust?
If you were to listen to the words of Putin himself you would understand why Russia invaded. Putin, like many other Russians, does not accept the fact of Ukrainian independence; he views Ukraine as a part of Russia. All the other excuses that Russia gives are just attempts to justify what, in the end, is just an old fashion imperial land-grab.
Is there a limit your bloodlust?
The only blood-lust is on the part of the Russians who started this war. I have no ill-will towards the Russians. This would all stop if they just went home. But I must ask, is there a limit to the bloodlust of those who are cheering Russia on?
An independent Ukraine was not a hostile nation next to Russia. Russia and Ukraine could have lived in peace were it not for Russia’s desire to reabsorb Ukraine. And if this is all about NATO expansion, why did Russia invade in 2014? As for the Minsk Accords, Russia itself, through its Donbas surrogates, refused to comply with it. Finally, what about the promises that Russia made to respect Ukrainian sovereignty?
Please stop regurgitating the MSM DEMOCRATS TOP TEN TAKING POINTS. If the democrats need a press secretary....
You get it. So many Freepers buy into Moscow’s propaganda and actually believe that Russia acted on behalf of the people of the Donbas. My Russian-speaking family and friends there are patriotic Ukrainians and they want the criminal Russians out, the Buryats out, and the Chechens out.
You pick your facts but reject anything Biden didn’t approve. So pathetic.
“but the promoise that Russia would never accept a hostile nation on her boarders. “
1. What promise?
2. Russia expanded her borders in the past to edge on new enemies
NATO didn’t seek to destroy Russia. That’s the latest bs Putin is spouting, after nazis, bioweapons labs, etc as justifications for his breaking the Budapest memorandum of 1994 when Russia agreed to respect Ukraine’s borders
You keep supporting a dictator who invades his neighbours.
And you get upset when those neighbours band together in NATO to defend themselves from the Nazi dictatorship of Putin
Look I get it. This is such an emotional subject. It just seems to me that everytime any discussion of the Ukraine conflict comes up, there are two types of people - those who hate Russia and those who support the Ukraine. Sometimes those two kinds of people are the same person burdened by the fact that darn near everything they know comes from the same MSM that foisted the Russian Hoax on the American people. The same MSM that hated Trump and called him a Russian Agent.
You have to look beyond the American press. There are so many youtuber’s out there. Try the Duran.
You can get a really good perspective on the issues surrounding this conflict. Even if you sincerel believe that Russia is Evil, that Putin is Evil... can you at the same time think any more or less of Biden.
The people in America at the top of the business hate Putin because he stopped the rape of Russia by a certain group of American businessmen, and those from other countries as well.
Putin has 80 percent support of the Russian people today and the longer this conflict continues the more internal support he has - six months ago he had 60 percent. And for the record, Biden has less than 35 percent support here. Does anyone believe a word he says? Biden has destroyed the credibility of the United States. To our allies, we are a strong armed thug demanding everyone fall in line. To our enemies we are a country that cannot be trusted.
I spent the majority of my career overseas serving this country. When I came back from a 12 year stint abroad, I did not recognize the United States. The crime and racial strife was shocking - this is the fruits of a poison tree and the rot is from the democrat party. They have become the Borg absorbing the intelligence agencies and all branches of the federal government. Conservatives are hated at the CIA and the State Department. The same rot has consumed American foreign policy with the homosexual agenda being pushed on every nation we deal with. When the radicalization of the USG goes overseas, it costs America credibility. That agenda is incompatible with Christian religion... with Islam. It is incompatible with families. Biden and Obama have destroyed the values of the West.
Ukrainie is a place where that family destroying homosexual agenda is being pushed. It is a place where the opposition political parties are being outlawed, where the orthodox church is outlawed under the guise of being called spies for Russia.
Ukriane is a place where the NAZI party is flourishing at the expense of any other organization. The Ukrainians are sending non-Ukrainian minorities to fight and die. The casuality figures show mosting Hungarian/Polish, etc., being rounded up and send to the front.
Ukraine is not a place where freedom or the West are being defended. It is a place where history is repeating under NAZI rule as the leader demands soldiers cling to undefendable positions to die - today it is mostly old men and teenagers and the party’s soldiers making sure they can’t retreat or live to fight another day.
All you choices of facts to support your hatred of Russia are grounded in hate and half truths.
I posted about the war and you choose to make Ukraine some kind of religion but NATO are the bad guys here.
You are a Pole who benefited from one of the CIAs first color revolutions - and you supported the color revolution (coup) in Ukraine. You don’t even mind supporting the proven NAZI’s in Ukraine yet you use projection to call Putin and Russia NAZIs. One would think after WWII NAZIs are not popular yet you love’m in Ukraine. The gest NAZI is a dead NAZI and the Ukraine is a target rich environment.
And yea, I think Russia is the closest thing to the good guys when it comes to Ukraine, and personally between you and me, if you Poles want to go and die in Ukraine (because Zenlenski can’t find enough ethenic Pole’s within Ukraine’s boarders to round up) then quit whinning about Russian’s kicking your butts.
If WWIII starts in the Ukraine, you Poles will get your “dose” (of reality) of radiation which is much deserved being that Joe Biden couldn’t give (his) a soiled Adult diaper about Ukrainian lives when he can get 10%.
Clearly, Russia initiated the conventional military action.
However, Russia did it after they determined US/NATO would not reduce their pressure to drag Ukraine into NATO, including manifesting a coup. (and it become obvious to everyone that NATO would push to force war as a method to depose Putin.)
Russia unsurprisingly fubarred the initial “Shock-and-Awe” attempt since the required command and control or maneuver capability has never been a feature of USSR/Russia doctrine. (And way beyond any of their own fevered dreams of their capability.) So, also unsurprisingly, they reverted to old-school USSR ground and pound.
Deepstate/CIA/Globalists put all the pieces in place for this war — and they got almost exactly what they wanted: Dead Russians, Billions of US tax payer money to cronies and MIC, increased EU dependency on US, and so on, at the mere cost of a “few” dead Ukrainians.
Mission Accomplished.
Uber Alles the American Hegemony.
Well except Putin is still alive and is still in charge of Russia. He will probably outlast Biden and will remain a problem for the next President who will face a more committed alliance of Russia, China, Iran, Brazil, Cuba, Venezuela, and others.
Taiwan is in greater jeopardy because of this misadventure. As are we all.
*Brought to us by Susan Rice, Obama, et al, with the help of bucket loads of useful idiots, Dems and Repubs alike.
...meanwhile our borders are unsecured, our culture is being destroyed by rampant degeneracy and division, middle class being hollowed out...all leading to the weakening and ultimate destruction of the USA.
“Is Russian armed forces basically laying waste to Ukraine”
“Is”?? Your English grammar is slipping Ivan.
I'm so sorry about the grammatical error. I was typing quickly and missed it. You're calling me "Ivan"...hahahaha... ok, I think I'm more of a compañero...
Yes, Putin is laying waste to Russian speaking areas of Ukraine. So what?
Putin doesn't give a sh#t about the people living there other than an excuse to grab resources and a warm water port...... just like we don't give a sh#t about the people we liberated in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon, Vietnam, Central and South America...hahahahaha.
Grow up, Sgt.Maj. Grammar.....
unless you're willing to grab a weapon and send yourself or your son to die for Ukrainian "freedom".... you should just STFU as opposed to cheerleading the destruction of Ukraine because some Presidents, Cabinet members, Senators, Congressmen and their families were paid off by defense contractors, drug manufacturers and Ukrainian money launderers or black mailed by our CIA/Epstein/deep state bureaucrats.
I just love all the pom pom wavers for Ukraine when their men are getting chewed up and clutch their pearls when they see what artillery does in war. Nobody likes watching the sausage getting made, pal.
It's war. Men die, women die, children die...ESPECIALLY CIVILIANS....same as it ever was..same as it ever was.
oh bull puckey.
There was no color revolution in Poland.
Neither was there a coup in Ukraine.
the Nazis are your Russian troops.
and if you think “Russia is the closes thing to the good guys” then would you be interested in buying the London bridge?
Jumper’s lies or failed predictions?
Jumper on 24th October 2022
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4102832/posts?page=18#18
“It is going to be cold not only in western Ukraine but Poland and Germany as well since they bought electricity from the Uke’s. “
Jumper on 10th November 2022
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4107713/posts?page=62#62
“ I predict every East of Di’niper River will be ceded to Russia.”
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