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PETER HITCHENS: Sending Ukraine our tanks could turn Europe into one big radioactive graveyard
DailyMail.com ^ | 1/21/2023 | Peter Hitchens

Posted on 01/21/2023 9:34:21 PM PST by Nextrush

This was the moment at which we began the unstoppable descent into terrible danger which so many of us will bitterly regret in times to come.

I won't waste time here going over the question of who started the Ukraine war, or even why. Most people don't want to know and refuse to think about it, or look up the facts. They defame and abuse anyone who tries to tell them. So to hell with that. I'm bored with trying.

The Government claims to be in favour of free debate in universities, so all the stage army of "Right-wing" thinkers and scribblers whoop with admiration that we can now perhaps discuss the transgender issue. Well and good.

But the Government and its tame thinkers are not in favour of free debate on crucial national policy...

When the Defence Secretary announced that British tanks were going to Ukraine, not one MP raised any doubts or opposed the move. Not one. To read the record of the non-debate is like reading the proceedings of some Communist fake parliament...

What we have just decided to do is to prolong and deepen the war. Maybe Ukraine's new tanks will sweep all before them. Maybe they will bog down. Maybe they will try to take Crimea. Maybe they will soon be taking part in a Victory Parade on Red Square. I don't know. But if they cross into what Russia regards at its own territory, then do not be surprised by anything which happens...

But why is Britain in this affair? I know that a lot of voters in key states in America hate Russia because their forebearers came from lands Moscow had oppressed. I know that some neo-conservative fanatics in Washington have long desired to dismantle Russia and ensure that is never an important...

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: bidenswar; germany; mtacniks; neocons4war; putinbots; theusualdumbspects; thewarprayer; ukraine; unitedkingdom; vatniks; ww3; wwiii; zeepersupset
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To: Waverunner

Germany thinks by disarming, it won’t be attacked. Maybe it will be proven right. On the other hand, if Poland has lots of Patriot missiles, what cities will Russia target with its intermediate-range missiles?

With respect to Germany, I would like the Congress to revisit providing defense to countries that don’t meet their NATO obligation. If Germany wants Patriot missiles, the price should be equal to its cumulative deficiency.


101 posted on 01/22/2023 9:26:24 AM PST by Redmen4ever
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To: wildcard_redneck
There's no such thing as a "Slavic Civil War". Pan-Slavism is simply Russian propaganda. 'Pan-Slavism" is like saying all the Germanic-language speaking countries should acknowledge Germany's leadership. It's simply nonsense.

Larger parts of Ukraine were part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth for far longer than they were part of Russia. How about giving Kaliningrad back to Germany? Does that work? If not, why not?

102 posted on 01/22/2023 11:15:11 AM PST by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: wildcard_redneck
If it placed 2 million troops next door, maybe. But how would an alliance that can't even agree to give tanks to Ukraine agree for Barbarossa II?

Here's how it has worked for centuries: i) Russia claims it is threatened; ii) Russia invades and annexes more territory giving it even bigger borders; iii) Russia claims it is threatened at its new borders and goes back to step (i).

Russia has been organized a looting empire for 400+ years. It is simply returning to the mean.

103 posted on 01/22/2023 11:19:54 AM PST by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: The Duke

Russia knows very well the war is about Ukraine not Russia’s national existence. Russia won’t use nukes because it has nothing to gain by doing so, even against Ukraine.


104 posted on 01/22/2023 11:21:58 AM PST by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: Locomotive Breath
Let me then jog your faulty memory. When you say "Democrats" you really should say JFK.

No faulty memory. I meant JFK when I said Democrats, as he was in charge. I saved articles from the time. As well as the debacle in the Bay of Pigs, and his mishandling of our pullout from Cuba. And the mess in Vietnam where we propped up dictators with our advisors before Johnson made a bigger mess, which is why we need to generalize on pointing fingers at "Democrats". Kennedy's back problems were well known back in the 1950's, I also read articles back then on it. His family was a mess. His brother Joe was being groomed for the presidency by their ambassador father, by money and connections, except Joe died in WWII and then John was positioned for the presidency. They got in the White House by election fraud, similar to how Biden got in by fraud. The Democrats are bad news, have been for a long time. Russia now is another thing, it's not about communism, it's a civil war (Ukraine means borderland). As much as people cry about helping Ukrainians, we risk nuclear war and should tread carefully.

105 posted on 01/22/2023 11:44:15 AM PST by roadcat
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To: pierrem15

Uuhm, the Ukraine was part of Russia for over 200 years and acts as the gateway to Moscow. Russia has legitimate concerns over the eastward march in Russia. If I was run img Russia I wouldn’t trust NATO. Not one but.


106 posted on 01/22/2023 11:58:27 AM PST by wildcard_redneck (Germans are bat-crap crazy for cold showers, high energy bills, and boiled turnips.)
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To: The Duke; pierrem15
"No Western powers are threatening Russia itself nor are any Western powers directly fighting against Russia in Ukraine."

Pure legalisms. Right now today Putin knows that Russia is actually at war with the US. We're close to ICBMs flying in both directions, IMHO.

Duke, there is no other way to see it.   I am amazed that so called Conservatives have pitched their tents in Joe Biden's camp with the Globalist Elites.

I can only think of fools whistling past the graveyard.

107 posted on 01/22/2023 12:16:57 PM PST by higgmeister (In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: DesertRhino

Let me know when the Big Red 1 is in Kiev. Oh wait, we aren’t sending anyone there.

MIGs and Russian pilots in Korea and Vietnam were cool. I guess we could “sell” Ukraine some F35s using Russian logic. That would be fun to watch.


108 posted on 01/22/2023 12:20:26 PM PST by Vermont Lt
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To: Gnome1949

In 10 months Russia has lost 25% of what the US lost in WWII. They’ve lost them for marginal land gains, and massive economic damage.

If you “normalize” the losses based on population, it’s closer to 50%.

Tell me how Long Russian can sustain such losses, and then occupy a country the size of Ukraine.

If you honestly believe that is Russia’s plan, you are kidding yourself.

Putin is going to end up with a lot of dead young men, a ruined economy, and—at best—an occupation force that will be constantly attacked from within.

Good luck with your “victory.”


109 posted on 01/22/2023 12:28:06 PM PST by Vermont Lt
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To: ansel12

I wager if NATO never inched closer, and closer, to Russia Ukraine would never be in a war.

If BRICS trained Mexicans to attack the US, you can be assured the US would start with a SMO against the Mexicans


110 posted on 01/22/2023 12:35:58 PM PST by Steven Tyler
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To: Peter ODonnell
But I would say from a psychological point of view, if the Russians already think all these events are our work, and they have not gone nuclear, then why not just end the subterfuge, send in huge NATO forces to defend Ukraine, sending Russia notes outlining the limits of engagement (only to the borders and even just cede them Crimea and call that the border), and see if they turn tail and run.

It’s dangerous but allowing this to continue for years with the inevitable risk of some catastrophic miscalculation is perhaps more dangerous.

If this weren't such a grave development your comment would be laughable.   The Whole point of President Putin's Special Military Operation was to keep the Ukraine out of the EU and NATO, yet you think a total occupation of Ukraine would make Russia turn tail and run.

If I was President Putin I would immediately nuke 20 major United States Cities using their undetectable and unstoppable hypersonic cruise missiles to run interference as needed.   But that's just me and President Putin is never going to do that. /s

111 posted on 01/22/2023 12:37:43 PM PST by higgmeister (In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: Redmen4ever

On Youtube, watch DW the german english language news much like NPR in flavor, and any of the english language news out of India. This gives a better feel for what is being said in Europe and Russia. Our news, all channels, just is so one sided, it isn’t funny. The international outlets let things slip that never get reported over here, like that the germans agreed to the leopards as long as we deliver abrams. Why won’t we send Abrams should be the question for Lloyd Austin?


112 posted on 01/22/2023 12:44:01 PM PST by Waverunner
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To: Steven Tyler

Read my post again, NATO didn’t “inch” anywhere, and Canada, Mexico, and the United States relations are no threat to the world and have nothing to do with the place of World Wars and nuclear weapons, and Gulags and the murder of 10 of millions of people and the place of Concentration camps and horrors on scales that don’t even seem real.

There is a reason those European countries live in fear of Russia and keep seeking out NATO and begging to be allowed to join.


113 posted on 01/22/2023 12:45:19 PM PST by ansel12 (NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.)
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To: higgmeister
Like a broken clock, even the Globalists are right twice a day.

You're refracting everything through the lens of your domestic political opponents, so if a foreign enemy is opposing them abroad you support the enemy hoping for domestic political gains. No different than what Hanoi Jane and the Dems did during the Vietnam War.

114 posted on 01/22/2023 1:13:20 PM PST by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: pierrem15
Russia knows very well the war is about Ukraine not Russia’s national existence. Russia won’t use nukes because it has nothing to gain by doing so, even against Ukraine.

WE are supporting the Ukraine.   The Ukraine, with our support, begins to get the upper hand in their border fracas.   Russia wants to stop our proxy war support that threatens their national existence.   Russia nukes US.

Are you that dense that you can't put two and two together?

115 posted on 01/22/2023 1:27:03 PM PST by higgmeister (In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: higgmeister

The use of “The” Ukraine tips your hand. Folks in Ukraine don’t call it that. They haven’t since the Russians left 30 years ago. It’s considered a Russian slur.


116 posted on 01/22/2023 1:28:43 PM PST by Vermont Lt
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To: higgmeister
Russia wants to stop our proxy war support that threatens their national existence.

This assertion is simply false. Russia lived with an independent Ukraine for 21 years before it started wars of territorial aggression. The only thing threatened by an independent Ukraine are inflated Russian egos.

117 posted on 01/22/2023 1:31:23 PM PST by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: Vermont Lt

That was the USSR that did that. That ended 30 years ago. We send the CIA and unlimited cash and weapons places now to overthrow governments.

try to keep up sport.


118 posted on 01/22/2023 1:38:22 PM PST by DesertRhino (Dogs are called man's best friend. Moslems hate dogs. Add it up..)
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To: DesertRhino

We never stopped doing that.

And in regards to Russian…Potato, patahto. They all deserve to burn in hell.


119 posted on 01/22/2023 1:44:29 PM PST by Vermont Lt
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To: roadcat; Locomotive Breath
In addition to the two Democrat Presidents, Dean Rusk, a Democrat from Cherokee County, Georgia, was the United States Secretary of State from 1961 to 1969 under John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson.   He is cited as one of the two officers responsible for dividing the two Koreas at the 38th parallel.

The Democrats controlled both the House and Senate the whole length of time that the Viet Nam Conflict existed.

In a word, Demonicrats.

120 posted on 01/22/2023 1:47:03 PM PST by higgmeister (In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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