Ukraine and Poland forge ‘special relationship’ as war brings neighbours closer

Financial times ^ | 22 December 2022 | Raphael Minder, Barbara Erling

[Cronos]

Journalist Anna Budyńska was among the grassroots army of Polish volunteers who rushed to help Ukrainian refugees as they began crossing the border in February to escape Russia’s invasion.

At first, she and her partner donated money and collected food and blankets for refugees arriving in Warsaw. But she wanted to do more to understand those whom she was helping and decided to learn Ukrainian.

“I suddenly realised that I had always loved to travel to western Europe, India or Mexico, but I had never visited Ukraine, knew nothing about Ukrainian culture and only a little bit about its history that was taught at school,”

Polish historian Maciej Franz said 2022 would be remembered as “a special year of integration” between “two nations that were isolated from each other by politics half a century ago, and even earlier by hatred and hostility, which was the result of the nationalism that raged between the mid-19th and 20th centuries”.

He said his country was helping Ukraine “because we know what it’s like to be under [Russian] occupation and how terrible it can be”.

... About 1.3mn Ukrainians lived in Poland before Russia’s full-scale invasion in February, and the number has more than doubled since then.

Their presence has given Poles a new sense of kinship with and respect for their neighbours.

...“We share a distinct fatalism and the same history of Russian imperialism, so many Polish people feel that the same kind of Russian aggression could once more await us,”

... Since February, Poland’s military and political support has been unwavering, even after Poland and Nato attributed an accidental missile strike that killed two Polish farm workers last month to the Ukrainian army. In the aftermath, Polish prime minister Mateusz Morawiecki said that “it is in our best interest to help Ukraine”.

[House Atreides]

“ No, I mean that you are utterly wrong about any NATO military forces going into Ukraine.

And I will remind you each month from now how wrong you are, starting with 1 month from now, on 23 January”
***************************************************************************

What I said (and the only thing I said) in my initial post was:

“I predict that Poland will be the first NATO nation that OPENLY moves military forces into western Ukraine. Any takers?”

So I never mentioned any dates or anything else beyond that simple one-sentence prediction. So feel free to diary me for a once monthly post to me. Forgive me if I lack the interest to similarly diary you.

You’re not Polish by any chance, are you? You just seem to be so sensitive and so triggered by my one sentence prediction/bet.

[buwaya]

What I said stands. The Parliament overwhelmingly approved the EU agreement, Yanukovych stalled after threats from Putin, and he was subsequently removed by an overwhelming and constitutional parliamentary vote.

In the meantime there was lots of back and forth re Tymoshenko delaying everything, which is irrelevant. The EU is often persnickety. Hence the many arguments the Poles have had with it.

But it was Putin that tried to put the kibosh on the thing. And he “burned” his asset Yanukovych in the process.

[Bruce Campbells Chin]

Of course you are. Do me a favor. Take your war drum and go beat it in front of 10 Downing street, if you're allowed. We don't need you and your noise here.

What a load of crap.

U.S. allies have been posting as Freepers for a very long time, and have always been welcomed here. What does seem unusual is the plethora of Russians and others who are not U.S. allies posting here and denigrating the U.S.. Yet curiously, you seem to have no issue with them, and never call them out for being "foreigners".

[buwaya]

But even you detail (your take) on the EU agreement as the foundational issue. See your own post to me above.

[Bruce Campbells Chin]

Of course you are. Do me a favor. Take your war drum and go beat it in front of 10 Downing street, if you're allowed. We don't need you and your noise here.

What a load of crap.

U.S. allies have been posting as Freepers for a very long time, and have always been welcomed here. What does seem unusual is the plethora of Russians and others who are not U.S. allies posting here and denigrating the U.S.. Yet curiously, you seem to have no issue with them, and never call them out for being "foreigners".

[JonPreston]

Please allow the Freak to speak for himself, and what are you talking about when you say “ally” we aren’t at war, despite your desires. Now go away Piggy. I prefer spending my Christmas 🎅 time around real Americans. Not warmongers.

[mac_truck]

No...your bogus claim that Yanukovich “defied” parliament to reject the EU deal is a complete fiction. The fact is Ukraine’s parliament rejected the EU deal after trying on multiple occasions to pass it. The deal had a fair hearing.

The article I linked also notes that France and others were chagrined at the insistence in Brussels to keep the former PM’s release from prison as a centerpiece of the deal.

Clearly shows that the West was meddling directly in Ukraine’s internal politics in 2013.

The unstated reason for the Western meddling is also clear...Yanokovich and his Party of Regions were headed to electoral victory against a divided opposition in 2014, and the forced release of Yulia Tymoshenko despite her conviction for corruption was intended to unite them under her (Svoboda) banner.

The deceitful West knew it couldn’t beat PoR fairly so they resorted to disenfranchising the Russian speaking population of Ukraine through an undemocratic overthrow of their elected President.

No amount of neoliberal lies and bullshit will change that fact.

[Bruce Campbells Chin]

Any member of NATO or other nation with whom we have a formal defense alliance is, by definition an "ally".

You are free to leave the thread anytime you wish if you don't like who is participating.

[JonPreston]

Oh I’ll stay on the thread my Neocon friend, and you carry on with your propping up these foreign interlopers. They will need help.

[Kazan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUo_FvINYAA

Update on Russian military operations in and around Ukraine for December 23, 2022:

- US prepares a 1.85 billion USD aid package for Ukraine; - Package includes Patriot missile battery;
- Western media notes Ukraine's use of Patriot missiles will compound existing missile shortage;
- Package falls short in terms of artillery ammunition;
- Pentagon contracts for additional ammunition for Ukraine's Soviet-era weapon systems falls far short of meeting Ukraine's weekly requirements let alone what it will require over the next month or year;
- Pentagon provides a "fact sheet" listing all support the US has provided since Russia's special military operation began in late February;
- Many systems on the Pentagon's end-of-year list cannot be replaced nor production ramped up for years to come;
- Russia's military appears prepared for long-term, intense, large-scale combat, it's forces arrayed for such fighting, its stockpiles large enough to supply it, hinting at the possibility Russia's military industrial output is also prepared to sustain it.

[vladimir998]

“Learn some history. It tends to repeat itself.”

Yeah, I actually have a PhD in history so you can just keep embarrassing yourself. The chances the Poles will be committing ethnic cleansing against tens of millions of Ukrainians inside Ukraine is zero. That’s what history teaches. If you knew some history, and knew who Pawel Wlodkovic was, you would know why.

[Cronos]

Human wave attacks is Putin’s tactic as he doesn’t care how many Russian soldiers die for Putin’s ego.

Poland isn’t at that level.

[Cronos]

Sigh, have you ever seen a demographic map of Ukraine?

and in terms of numbers

In 2001, the ethnic composition was: Ukrainians 77.8%, Russian 17.3%, Romanian 1.1% (including Moldovan 0.8%), Belarusian 0.6%, Crimean Tatar 0.5%, Bulgarian 0.4%, Hungarian 0.3%, Polish 0.3%, Jewish 1.0%, Pontic Greeks 0.2% and other 1.6% (including Muslim Bulgarians, otherwise known as Torbesh and a microcosm of Swedes of Gammalsvenskby). It is also estimated that there are about 49,817 ethnic Koreans (0.12%) in Ukraine that belong to the Koryo-saram group. Their number may be as high as 100.000 as many ethnic Koreans were assimilated into the majority population.

Stalin created ethnic states.

[Cronos]

Bobl "which will be when Russia completes its liberation of Donbass and starts moving west, towards the Dnieper River in Central Poland"

What are you smoking, the Dnieper is nowhere near Eastern Poland, forget about central Poland

and you have been predicting Russia will grab the Donbass since February, and you have consistently been wrong

[BobL]

“Poland isn’t at that level.”

They have NO CHOICE, if they really want to fight Russia. But lots of them, and they’re nearly as fanatic as the Azovs.

[Cronos]

Oh that’s bull.

The Azovs were formed among Russian speakers. They have Jews, Armenians etc in their number. And their number never crossed 1000.

They were exclusively in the east where Russia invaded in 2014

[Cronos]

Ivanpresto “As Russia mobilizes on the Belarus/Ukraine border in advance of splitting Ukraine in half, and advances thru Bakhmut, block by block”
You wrote that on 22 December 2022.

In February 2022 you will change your tune when you Russians are pushed out of further territory

[Cronos]

You Russians really have warped ideas. Poland is leading the push for supporting Ukraine. They pushed Germany and France.

The only puppet is you, repeating Kremlin lies

[BobL]

"The Azovs were formed among Russian speakers. They have Jews, Armenians etc in their number. And their number never crossed 1000."

Is that why there were so many headlines BEFORE this year, all saying Ukraine? (remember, the Internet NEVER forgets - hint: ask your handlers for a new cover story)

[Cronos]

Nope. That would be you Ivan