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Is This Winning? Western leaders can no longer hide the truth about Ukraine.
The American Conservative ^ | December 19, 2022 | George D. O’Neill Jr.

Posted on 12/19/2022 6:35:41 AM PST by NorseViking

Recently, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen carelessly revealed the devastating cost of the Ukraine war.

“It is estimated that more than 20,000 civilians and 100,000 Ukrainian military personnel have died to date,” she said. The comment drew sharp backlash and the E.C. later deleted the comments from video recordings of the address. The censorship was left unexplained and demonstrated the confusion of the purveyors of the approved narrative.

If Von der Leyen’s estimate is true, that is nearly ten times the number of dead Ukrainian soldiers reported by the Ukrainian government. The E.C. president’s remark shows that even the strongest backers of this bloody and unnecessary war can no longer hide the truth: Ukraine is at risk of losing.

The mainstream media and the Biden administration insist ad nauseam that Ukraine is winning against Russia. But the facts on the ground do not fit the narrative and the administration and media know it. The war hawks know their cynical Ukraine policy has not succeeded in driving Russia out of Ukraine. Tragically, the Ukrainians are the ones who suffer the immense cost of this foreign policy failure. Their nation is ruined for the sake and at the instigation of the globalist American empire.

(Excerpt) Read more at theamericanconservative.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: 100000deadukrainians; 100000deadulrainians; angerofthepunyneocon; feelthepunyanger; forzelsmiamidacha; gretaspunyhuman; intothegunsdearukies; intothegunsoncemore; mtacnik; neocons4biden; pilesofdeadukies; pilesofdeadulies; russia; swampniks; ukraine; ukraineslushfund; ulraine; vatnik; zelenskyworshippers
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To: realcleanguy

The US lost in A-stan. The Soviets kicked ass and the government survived 3 years after their withdrawal.
All in all, the low intensity COIN scenario is not applicable to a nation state war.


61 posted on 12/19/2022 7:22:23 AM PST by NorseViking
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To: jacknhoo

We brag about “conservative values”, well not taking responsibility for our own actions is not one of them as far as I’m concerned.

Neither is flag waiving and chest thumping like zombies while not even bothering, or refusing, to know what it is what we’re doing.

Arguing with people who engage in this behavior blows but I feel obligated to do this because *nobody* benefits and if it doesn’t stop we’re toast and it’s nobody’s fault but our own.


62 posted on 12/19/2022 7:22:37 AM PST by Chunga85 (An arrogant govt combined with an ignorant population is a recipe for disaster.)
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To: NorseViking

The Ukraine is a money laundering scheme set up to steal money from US taxpayers. Significant amounts of the cash go right into the coffers of the democRATS.


63 posted on 12/19/2022 7:23:09 AM PST by 9422WMR (45 1. Lie, cheat, steal. It’s how the democRATS operate. )
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

We know the media lies. We know the political elite, both Democrats and Republicans, lie to us. Why is the war news any different?

I saw Ursula von der Leyen’s video, both the original and the edited one. She unmistakably said Ukraine had suffered a hundred thousand military deaths. Deaths, not casualties, deaths.

So, using the wounded-to-kill ratio of 4:1; this means Ukraine suffered 500,000 casualties (400,000 injured and 100,000 killed). And if Zelensky’s figure of 5:1 to 8:1 is more credible, this translates to up to 900,000 casualties.

How can any country survive such losses? Is it Russian propaganda to point out that soldiers do not grow on trees?

If you want to believe a nation that is losing so many soldiers and whose power, water, and heat infrastructure are getting obliterated by missiles can win against Russia, then that’s your prerogative. But to accuse those pointing out the obvious as “Fake News” or Russian propagandists is uncalled and unfair.


64 posted on 12/19/2022 7:23:27 AM PST by Raymond Pamintuan
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To: BobL

“Ukraine has used thirteen years of Javelin production in ten months.”


65 posted on 12/19/2022 7:24:18 AM PST by BuckeyeGOP ( )
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To: NorseViking

Ukraine is not winning Jack! It is all propaganda for the laundromat. Ukraine has become the largest international arms dealer by selling what we ship them. This is all a bad joke being played on the world stage where all the insiders are profiting at the expense of the people of the world. Ukrainian citizens with blood and US citizens with money and it all comes back to those sending that foreign aid money out like candy.


66 posted on 12/19/2022 7:24:24 AM PST by Slingwing
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To: Raymond Pamintuan

They draft 60 years olds and there are about 20k sheep dipped Poles.


67 posted on 12/19/2022 7:25:55 AM PST by NorseViking
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To: NorseViking

Of course, Ukrainians suffer a lot in this war. Ruzzies are destroying the infrastructure, people get killed and maimed.
But they want the FREEDOM!
Like Patrick Henry.
Give me freedom or give me death!

If the founding fathers worried about death and destruction, Charles III would be our king now!
And without the help of French and Spanish, that could be the case too.


68 posted on 12/19/2022 7:25:58 AM PST by AZJeep
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To: NorseViking

I estimate Ukraine will need to lose about 5X more dead before they capitulate.

They still have a lot of human cannon fodder available, their Azov ideology is firmly entrenched, and NATO / US MIC will make sure every last possible Ukrainian is sacrificed for their strategic plans.


69 posted on 12/19/2022 7:26:06 AM PST by PGR88
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

The American Conservative magazine has always been extremely isolationist. They endorsed John Kerry in 2004 and Obama in 2008.


70 posted on 12/19/2022 7:27:16 AM PST by Krosan
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To: Grzegorz 246
Damn nazi warmongers, why don't they just surrender ?

If revolutionaries are going to overthrow the Government, Why not let disenfranchised voters secede?
71 posted on 12/19/2022 7:27:18 AM PST by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
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To: BenLurkin

They deleted the portion where Ursula von der Leyen said Ukraine had a hundred thousand dead soldiers and also modified the transcripts. If you look carefully at the “official” video, you will see the snip “jump.” Fortunately, the original video was copied, and you can see it online at various sites.


72 posted on 12/19/2022 7:27:55 AM PST by Raymond Pamintuan
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To: NorseViking

Ukraine is DS central. It is the core of the Nazi 4th riech.


73 posted on 12/19/2022 7:28:31 AM PST by Revolutionary ("Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition!")
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To: NorseViking
It is a dumb idea to base an entire article on a miss-statement by someone who subsequently corrected it.

That's called grasping at straws, or gaslighting, depending on whether the author really believes that the person who miss-spoke stated an actual fact.

I wonder if the author is still trying to find the extra 7 states that Obama mentioned in one of his speeches.

74 posted on 12/19/2022 7:28:36 AM PST by freeandfreezing
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To: AZJeep

It is a very primitive approach. All sides deserve freedom.


75 posted on 12/19/2022 7:29:02 AM PST by NorseViking
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To: FlingWingFlyer

The USSR no longer exists. That monolithic global threat is gone. It has been replaced by an aggressive regional kleptocracy called Russia that is a regional threat to Western and Eastern Europe. A little tough love is in order. Basically, throw the adult child out of the basement and force the Europeans to defend themselves. Time to leave Europe to their own devices against a much smaller and poorer Russia who has put on display in Ukraine a military that is sorely lacking. China is the global and economic threat where we have a vital national security interest, and all of our attention should be directed to the Indo Pacific


76 posted on 12/19/2022 7:29:06 AM PST by chuckee ( )
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To: BuckeyeGOP

“Ukraine has used thirteen years of Javelin production in ten months.”

Exactly, and I didn’t even get into the Chinese connection for raw materials and low-level components. I suspect that China might be, now, having ‘production issues’ on parts that are used in US weapons, and when we look for other potential suppliers, we find one, which is Russia. So we’re forced to virtually re-start our military industrial base from scratch.


77 posted on 12/19/2022 7:30:51 AM PST by BobL (By the way, low tonight in Poland: 12 degrees, brrrr!)
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To: Right_Wing_Madman

Post 9 - That is probably the most accurate assessment.

It is the ‘Reverse Reagan’ being played by Vlad on the western fools.


78 posted on 12/19/2022 7:32:08 AM PST by ptsal (Vote R.E.D. >>>Remove Every Democrat ***)
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To: Phoenix8
If Trump would have been potus I’d bet money he would have figured out a deal to avoid this war.

I’ve thought that all along too. Trump would have had the two leaders at the bargaining table early on instead of sending vast amounts of capital to one of the most corrupt nations in the world.

He wouldn’t have let Ukraine get screwed over in a deal and their infrastructure would still be intact.

79 posted on 12/19/2022 7:32:12 AM PST by Allegra
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
It takes a special type of dumb to imagine that this is 5 dimensional chess to "bleed the United States" by Russia, a country with a GDP maybe around the size of Illinois PRE-sanctioned.

yeah, GDP matters! That’s why a bunch of goat humping, boy loving , cavemen in Afghanistan kicked our ass for 20 years and made us leave. Right? The GDP of Afghanistan or Vietnam or North Korea really mattered when we fought them. Maybe it was their sophisticated weapons systems and logistics?

but the same geniuses are telling us Russians are losing. We have soldiers on food stamps, disabled and disfigured veterans begging for money on television and military housing that will give troops cancer and families illnesss due to contamination and mold…… but we have BILLIONS OF DOLLARS for Ukrainian armed forces, government salaries and rebuilding their infrastructure.

when I see or hear any of “our” oligarchs in DC speak or their supporters , I wish they’d grab a big cup of “shut the f&ck up” and just move along.

80 posted on 12/19/2022 7:32:36 AM PST by Dick Vomer (2 Timothy 4:7 deo duce ferro comitantes)
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