Posted on 12/10/2022 6:14:48 AM PST by ChicagoConservative27
I shouldn’t have said “likely,” more “possibly,” although we have not heard from him for many weeks.
It appears to me the Ukrainian stance is to hold on until Putin has died or been removed. In the interim, we're staring at a humanitarian crisis of immense proportions.
In the meantime, our Southern Border is being invaded by illegal aliens, and fentanyl pushers.
It's not my personal opinion, and is indeed fact, and there are actually many facts that have led up to this conflict. The fact is that this conflict was fomented by the U.S.
First they assured Putin that they would not be expanding NATO to the east in Europe.
You can read more about that in the following article, but you have to read the entire article:
Did The West Promise Moscow That NATO Would Not Expand? Well, It's Complicated.
I provide some of it for you:
Four years later, in an effort to assuage Moscow's concerns, NATO and Russia signed the NATO-Russia Founding Act, a political agreement stating, among other things, that "NATO and Russia do not consider each other as adversaries." In 2002, NATO and Russia agreed to set up a joint consultative council, ostensibly as a venue to resolve disagreements. But the council was seen as ineffectual by many in Moscow.
Then, two years later, NATO underwent the largest expansion in its history, admitting seven more Eastern European countries, including the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, which had been republics of the Soviet Union and chafed under Moscow's rule. While it wasn't the first time a NATO member bordered Russia or the Soviet Union, now a NATO member's troops potentially could be located just 625 kilometers from Moscow.
Now we move up to more modern days, where the U.S. fomented the coup d'etat of the duly elected President of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, because he had rejected moving closer to the EU by refusing to sign an EU association agreement.
That started the Orange Revolution, which has all the earmarks of a CIA color revolution operation, not a spontaneous event. Which you can read about from the BBC account:
Ukraine protests after Yanukovych EU deal rejection
That eventually led to the Maidan Revolution in 2014, that led to the ouster of President Viktor Yanukovych on Feb. 22nd, 2014. That in turn led to the seizing if the Crimea by Russia on Feb. 27th, 2014.
For 8 years conflicts raged in the Donbas region of Ukraine. Putin tried for 8 years to get international nations involved is stopping the ongoing conflict in Eastern Ukraine, to no avail. There were even 2 Minsk agreements worked on and signed by Ukraine, but later admitted they had no intention of implementing the Minsk agreements. That they had only signed them to buy time to build a military and to arm/train them.
You can read about that in the following articles:
Ukraine Says Openly That It Will Not Implement The Minsk agreements
Can Ukraine and Russia be persuaded to abide by Minsk accords?
That SOB who stole the election and his administration wanted to wage a proxy war against Russia using Ukraine as the battlefield & her citizens as the combatants and innocent civilians.
I have provided this evidence many times over, but no one bothers to learn the truth. You will no doubt be yet another who refuses to see the truth.
The U.S. Has Its Own Agenda Against Russia
Ukraine is ground zero for the expansion of the U.S.-Russia proxy war.
Your attempts to make yourself appear to be knowledgeable, backfires horribly because it soon becomes obvious you are not.
Be a proud Liberal. A Classic Liberal.
And don't give me your nonsense about living in a "safe" country. Don't know about Jon, but I did 8+ years in the Army as an Air Defense Artillery Officer, from Platoon Leader to Battery Commander.
I also was the sole advocate for Ronald Reagan in 1980 in the German town I lived in. My neighbors pleaded with me to vote for Carter, they were sure Reagan would start WWIII. 2-3 nights a week leading up to that election, I stood my ground in those debates, which were entirely in German. My main argument was the world is a safer place when America is strong. That rings true today: how safe do you feel with Biden and Trudeau in charge of America and Canada?
If we can give up the Merchant of Death for Britney Griner, a bleeping basketball player, why can't a negotiation of the conflict in Ukraine be accomplished? We all know there will be no winners, so why continue the bloodshed?
The signs were all around me when I lived in Traben-Trarbach, a town along the Mosel River that had been fought over for at least 1000 years. From my carport, I could see the ruins of a 14th century castle. And after all those years, and all those wars, what really changed? Is the Ukraine any different? In my opinion, no.
I understand, & appreciate your concerns, but understanding can only be accomplished via knowledge. Now that you have provided me with that knowledge, I can better empathize with your concerns.
Believe it or not I have concerns for the people in Ukraine also. For the vast majority are caught up in something they did not want any part of.
But unfortunately for them evil is their leadership, as evil is our current leadership.
I find it for more important that we deal with our problems before we go trying to fix the problems of others.
Especially when evil is a major problem in leadership at home and they have their own evil leader.
I guess for me, it's a case or priorities, and which focus is needed that will result in the higher return. While some may say I'm picking the selfish choice, that is in part true, but we have more impact upon the world at large than does Ukraine. Therefore, it makes more, to me, sense to fix ourselves first.
We are losing because weak and stupid voters are easily manipulated. In this case conservatives who are supporting the America hating tin pot czar of Russia who is currently threatening to nuke us.
Democrats have been fellow travelers of the Kremlin for over a century. They are current partnering with Putin to nuke up Iran and using Russian money to push their green new deal. Ukraine is a side issue bar issue to all this.
Peace Through Strength conservatives are using the principles Reagan taught us while supporting Ukraine’s right to a national identity. Democrats call us nazis. Russia call Ukrainians nazis. Democrats say we live on stolen land. Russians say Ukraine is illigimate. See the pattern yet?
Wake up and stop carrying water for America hating Kremlin and those who wish us to be ruled by the CCP. So it is you who owe us an apology. That’s won’t be coming, of course, because those American conservatives so broken and deluded into support the Kremlin will never see the truth smacking them in the face.
That’s what I love about Free Republic: we clearly disagreed on some points but had a respectful conversation. And I learned a bunch. All I can say is agree with your latest comment 100%.
Sure, Putin's direct military support had nothing to do with the conflict. Okay
Putin tried for 8 years to get international nations involved is stopping the ongoing conflict in Eastern Ukraine, to no avail
LOL, you're completely ridiculous. Sure, Putin is the man of peace.
Because of barbaric Russian treatment of Ukrainian civilians under their control.
Russian soldiers in intercepted phone conversations called their sweeps of Bucha and other towns “zachistka” – cleansing. They hunted people on lists prepared by their intelligence services and went door to door to identify and neutralize potential threats.
https://apnews.com/article/bucha-ukraine-war-cleansing-investigation-43e5a9538e9ba68a035756b05028b8b4
I find it very informative that Democrats and Putinists use the same rhetoric. Trump voters are “white supremacists” while Ukrainians are “nazis”. Again a few weeks ago President Trump was labeled a white supremist because Kayne West brought some fruitcake with him to dinner with Trump. Are the nurses hiding babies in Ukraine so they are not stolen by Russia also “nazis”?
#66. Thanks Night Hides Not. He follows me around these threads making noise, never really making sense.
“”“We had to destroy the village in order to save it”.””
Fake quote from a leftist reporter, Peter Arnett.
So many of these idiots make that stupid, uninformed accusation. When you tell them to go find posts of yours that indicate you support Putin and Russia and they can’t, they just double down on their childish insults and keep spewing their stinking lies.
There are maybe two people on here who really do support Russia and Putin and they’re pretty much just as nasty as the Ukrainiacs with their insults.
Most people here are like us: We don’t want our taxpayer dollars going to a crook’s money-laundering operation that funds Democrat campaigns here in our country.
I have not been manipulated in any way shape or form.
You, on the other hand are unable to see the subterfuge being fed to you by liars and evil people.
While you accuse me of supporting a tinpot czar in Russia, based solely upon the fact that I do not support Ukraine, in this conflict. You wrongly assume that my lack of support of Ukraine translates to support for Russia.
I support neither.
What is really killing this nation is your support for this conflict where we send billions of dollars to Ukraine for their corrupt oligarchs & leader to become wealthy off of American taxpayer money. In addition, you are supporting the most corrupt & evil president this nation has ever had, who occupies the White House as a result of a stolen election which violated the rights of American citizens in the process.
You entire screed is so chock-full of nonsense that I would laugh, if it didn't have so many damning consequences attached to it.
Like this from you:
Democrats have been fellow travelers of the Kremlin for over a century. They are current partnering with Putin to nuke up Iran and using Russian money to push their green new deal. Ukraine is a side issue bar issue to all this.
Do you actually believe all that you have written there? If so, I can't decide if you lack 2 brain cells to rub together, or if you are using your Ovaltine Secret Decoder ring.
While they have indeed looked up to Russia in the past, they have pivoted their allegiance to China, because they realize that Russia is in decline and China is ascending.
Furthermore, I believe Putin refused to align himself with the communists who are currently running this nation. I have no proof of that, but something caused Clinton's reset button to be tossed aside, & be completely abandoned.
As for obtaining their green initiatives money, they are taking that from you and me, not Russia. That money allocated for those initiatives are merely one of the mechanisms they use to funnel taxpayer money into their pockets. Another mechanism is giving taxpayer money to Ukraine, which is laundered back to them after they take some for themselves. They are mad at SBF, because his charade which had to finally fail, means they lost that avenue they used to launder money through his FTX scam.
You are correct, if by stating that Ukraine is a sidebar issue, that you really mean Ukraine is a distraction. So, why are you falling for the distraction by supporting Ukraine? Especially when that distraction is designed to keep you from paying attention to what's happening in your own country. Namely the unfettered invasion via our southern border. Russia invasion bad, U.S. invasion not important. Is that how you see it? Because it sure sounds like it to me.
Peace Through Strength conservatives are using the principles Reagan taught us while supporting Ukraine’s right to a national identity. Democrats call us nazis. Russia call Ukrainians nazis. Democrats say we live on stolen land. Russians say Ukraine is illigimate. See the pattern yet?
I think if Ronald Reagan were still alive he would set you straight, that getting involved is not what is meant by peace through strength at all.
I don't remember Reagan ever mentioning Ukraine by name. His target was to free all of the Soviet Union's satellite nations. The strength he was talking about, was to build up the U.S. militarily to keep the Soviet Union at bay. He didn't start a proxy war with the Soviet Union. What he did do was start as arms race that compelled them to try and keep up with the U.S. Big difference with what is taking place now.
How is using up our stockpiles of weapons, and further depleting our treasury, after giving the Taliban how many billions of arms they left behind for them, providing us strength?
It's weakening our strength.
Russia has not called all Ukrainians Nazis, anymore than Donald John Trump called all Hispanics coming into our country illegally, rapists & criminals. Like DJT, who said there are some who are rapists & criminals, while Putin said that Ukraine has a Nazi problem. The press lied regarding Putin's words, just like they lied regarding DJT's words. Putin also never said Ukraine was illegitimate.
The only pattern I see developing is you believing what the lying press has been telling you, instead of doing research yourself. Something tells me that was not the pattern you wanted me to see, is it.
Wake up and stop carrying water for America hating Kremlin and those who wish us to be ruled by the CCP. So it is you who owe us an apology. That’s won’t be coming, of course, because those American conservatives so broken and deluded into support the Kremlin will never see the truth smacking them in the face.
Sorry, but it is not me that needs to wake up here. You accuse me of carrying water for Putin, when sadly it is you who is carrying water for Joe Biden, his illegitimate & corrupt administration, while playing right into the hands of those who desire the destruction of this nation.
You are supporting evil in this country, as well as, the evil in Ukraine and you are clueless to that reality.
There is an old saying; clean up you own backyard before you go yelling at you neighbor to clean his up.
You are badly bewildered as to what is really going on. Not trying to be mean, for I want you to come help get this nation back on track. But you can't do that if you allow yourself to be distracted, and you continue to buy into lies.
Yes, I am the conservative who is broken & deluded. /sarcasm
You utter ignorance is so way beyond the pale, it frightens me quite frankly. No doubt you believe I am bearing false witness for the sake of Putin, but you think it's my ignorance that causes me to do so. So, I suspect you will continue to help them destroy our nation that I am fighting hard to get you Zelenskyy/Ukraine cheerleaders to see but none, or at least most of you, apparently have the ability to see reality.
No wonder this nation is in such disarray. But it's not really your fault. They have throw so much dishonesty around that it is hard at times to see who is telling the truth, and who is deceiving their fellow man.
All I can tell you, I am not trying to deceive anyone. I am trying to get people to see reality, not the lies & delusions they are being fed.
I was born into this nation 70 years ago. I love this nation, and both my grandfather & father fought in WWII to keep Americans safe & free. I have absolutely no reason to support Putin. I gain nothing by even doing that. I do not want this nation to go communist, because of my only daughter. Nor do I want your children & grandchildren to have to grown up in a communist country. I want this country to return to her glory and be inhabited by honest God respecting people, period. I would then love for the world to follow us into the human state of their own accord, where we all can live in peace.
So, it's up to you to decide what kind of person you honestly believe I am, for nothing I say can sway you, nor do I really want to sway you. You will ultimately find out for yourself, the mistakes you made, when you thought you made the right choice.
Prove me wrong. Show me where he encroached into Ukraine other than 2014 and the taking of Crimea. You can't because you really have no clue what transpired.
Furthermore, I never said Putin was a man of peace. He is a man, and most real men have limits has to how long they will seek remedies to problems from outside sources, before he takes the problem into his own hands to rectify them.
But I am more than willing to see what you provide me to disprove what I said.
Yes, I believe the Russian Iran nuclear negotiator when he says “Biden gave us everything we wanted.” You should, too.
Again, it is provably in the economic interest of the US to kick Russian corruption and influence out of Europe. President Trump agrees and his policies reflect that. Apparently, you don’t want that and want to Make Russia Great Again. That’s ok. Just don’t try to dupe Reagan conservatives. We’re on to this gaslighting scam in support of nazi Russia.
So, it’s up to you to decide what kind of person you honestly believe I am, for nothing I say can sway you, nor do I really want to sway you. You will ultimately find out for yourself, the mistakes you made, when you thought you made the right choice.
*******
I personally think that applies across the board to all of us
humans world wide. Granted laws, rules, regulations are not
the same for all but we all have to live with have we have in
our time of living on this earth. jmo.
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