Posted on 10/31/2022 7:54:06 AM PDT by ChicagoConservative27
Facing reverses on the frontline, Russian forces are intensifying strategic strikes on Ukrainian infrastructure, with a renewed bombardment of Kyiv (Kiev) cutting off power and water in the capital.
Vitali Klitschko, the former heavyweight boxing champion who serves as the capital city’s mayor, said an energy facility powering “about 350,000 apartments in Kyiv” had been rocked by five explosions in the early hours of Monday morning.
(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...
So do civilians, including those driving the truck (unknowingly) that contained a bomb.
It also supplied 2.3 crimeans...
Agreed on covert staying covert.
The revolution and the war overlapped.
The Tsars were on our side and we supported them. The Bolsheviks were not on our side and aligned with Germany and the Ottoman Empire.
We had approximately 5,000 troops in Russia, but very limited warfare. The August 1918 “operation” was carried out alongside British, French, Canadian and Japanese forces in support of White Army counter-revolutionaries whose generals were implicated in wide-scale atrocities, including against Jews.
This “Midnight War” was carried out illegally, without the consent of Congress. The Commanding General in Siberia, William S. Graves thought that his mission was to protect a delegation of Czech troops and the Trans-Siberian railway and to serve as a mediator. He was disappointed to learn that in fact the United States was enmeshed in another country’s civil war and came to oppose the whole operation.
In his memoirs, he expressed “doubt if history will record in the past century a more flagrant case of flouting the well-known and approved practice in states in their international relations, and using instead of the accepted principles of international law, the principle of might makes right.”
U.S. soldiers performed guard duty and protected the railways from Bolshevik forces and that they “followed Wilson’s policy of non-aggression closely, only fighting small-scale but fierce actions when provoked, resulting in 170 American dead.”
The Russian revolution unfolded in two phases. In February 1917, the Tsar was overthrown and Aleksander Kerensky established a liberal provisional revolutionary government. It was deeply unpopular because Kerensky kept Russian forces fighting in the Great War on the side of the Allies when they had begun to mutiny, and refused to meet the demand for land and wealth redistribution. Following a counter-revolutionary putsch by Lavr Kornilov, whom the New York Times heralded as “the strong man who would deliver Russia from her tribulations,” the Bolsheviks seized the Winter Palace in November 1917 led by Leon Trotsky and Vladimir Lenin, who envisioned the creation of a classless utopian society.
To keep Russia in the war, the Wilson administration extended tens of millions in credits for armaments and military supplies to Kerensky’s government, with J.P. Morgan also raising money in direct support of his cause. The influential diplomat George Kennan Sr., author of an exposé of the Tsarist criminal justice system that depicted Russia in the darkest of possible light, lost patience with Kerensky because of his unwillingness to undertake a thorough purge of the opposition. Kennan hoped for the emergence of a “strong man” who would forcibly suppress every trace of radicalism in Russia. He lamented the Bolsheviks’ strong urge for peace, fearing they would use their popularity in ending the war to proceed with their “crazy plan” for “turning Russia upside down with the proletariat on top.”
Didn’t the Russian run out of rockets a month ago? Where are they getting them? Ukraine is so powerful—Why do they need funds to pay off all their Government employees? Their army is so great? why not push the Russians out—this week? Methinks we are not getting the whole story here.
Why should I care about the internal affairs of either of those countries? I don't care about their internal corruption, I don't care what their environmental policies are, I don't care what their policies are regarding LGBTQ, etc. etc. etc.. It is up to the people of each country what their own internal policies are going to be like.
Those are all national issues. It only became an international issue when Russia decided to invade Ukraine, which is the only relevant fact as far as I'm concerned. If Ukraine had invaded Russia, I'd be rooting for Russia.
“ War has many facets. Some battles you win, some you do not.”
True.
And Russia’s been having quite the losing streak.
Britain and France had lost over 2 MILLION men in the war and the allies were not going to allow the Bolshevik surrender to Germany to jeopardize the outcome of the war. Some way had to be found to keep German troops in Russia. They took matters into their own hands. The Allies landed in Russia at three locations: Siberia (Vladivostok) and North Russia - Archangel and Murmansk. This was a multinational deployment. Britain took the lead, landing small forces in Murmansk in April 1918 with the bulk of the allied troops arriving in Murmansk and Archangel in August. Britain had 18,400 troops, the US 5,100, Canada and France about 1,000 each with small units from Australia and Serbia. All forces were under British command. This force immediately engaged the Bolshevik army and advanced rapidly. This advance played a definite role in keeping the bulk of German forces in Russia - the objective of the mission. After advancing hundreds of miles, lines were stretched too thin and the force went into defensive positions in October 1918. It’s ironic that the Germans and Russians were at peace with each other, even though Germany still controlled parts of Russia and over 2 MILLION Russian troops had been killed by Germany during the war. Yet the Bolsheviks were eager to attack their former allies in the war. Thanks to the US Army, Germany was forced to surrender on November 11, 1918, and there was no longer a need to be in Russia. But due to the brutal Russian winter, troops could not be withdrawn til spring. The Bolsheviks launched winter counterattacks against the allies with heavy casualties on both sides. The allies tried to turn the war over to the anti-Bolshevik forces, but they were plagued by mutinies and desertion. The US withdrew its troops by the end of June 1919. Hundreds of Russians wept and said “God bless You” in Russian as the troop transports pulled away.(2) The British withdrew on Sep 20, 1919. About 17,000 Russian civilians - fearful of communism - were also evacuated on British ships. Allied forces began landing in Siberia in August 1918. Japan was to send 12,000 troops, while the US sent 8,000. There were also about 2,000 British, French, Italian and Chinese troops there. The US Army guarded the eastern part of the Trans Siberian Railroad so the Czechs and anti-Bolshevik forces could get armaments and supplies sent from the US. US forces only engaged in combat when attacked. Japan, intent on conquering parts of Siberia, sent in 72,000 troops. Only strong political pressure from the US prevented Japan from carrying out their imperialistic plans. By late September, the Czech Legion began to withdraw to Vladivostok when attacked by the much larger Bolshevik Army.(3) The Czechs no longer wanted to help the anti-Bolshevik forces because of their brutality against the Russian people. The Czechs just wanted out of Russia. The US decided to withdraw its troops in Dec 1919 and the withdrawal was completed by April, 1920. British troops left in Nov 1919. The US and Britain evacuated about 60,000 Czech soldiers and civilians between February and September 1920. Japan refused to leave until 1922. The Far Eastern Republic, a communist buffer state controlled by the Soviet government, publicly thanked the US for its efforts to force Japan’s withdrawal.
My original point was that the US Army has only met the Russian army in combat one time and we lost.
Trump said he wanted the negotiating table so you are wrong.
No. I’m right.
>>And Russia’s been having quite the losing streak.<<
So what? Kiev seems to be quite concerned as of late by multiple missile attacks.
Again, we should not be involved in this conflict.
>>It only became an international issue when Russia decided to invade Ukraine,<<
So tell me, how would Americans feel if China or Russia were to setup military bases in...oh, lets say Messy-co? What if the Axis of Iran, China, Russia, NK setup a presence in Messy-co or Cuba?
The same damn thing that is happening in Ukraine is exactly what would happen if this were the scenario on our border.
America would likely try a few attempts to get the Axis to move their presence away from our border. If they continued to pursue a threat to our national security, WE WOULD INVADE Messy-co or Cuba and eliminate the threat.
Does the Cuban missile crisis ring a bell? This is not an American problem, but America has made it our problem by conducting a proxy war. This is a European problem.
U.S. Constitution provides for the “Common Defense”. Tell me how this conflict is for the defense of our nation?
Do you actually know anything about the Cuban Missile Crisis? It involved the confirmed presence of actual nuclear weapons in Cuba. Not the possibility that they might, potentially, someday be there, but actual confirmed presence.
Whe did we put nuclear weapons in Ukraine? Because that would be the equivalent.
Moreover, after the Cuban Missile crisis, there were Soviet troops stationed permanently in Cuba for literally decades, with their own permanent base. Did we use that as an excuse to send U.S. troops to invade and conquer Cuba? No. They were allowed there because Cuba was sovereign. And we didn't even have any permanent bases in Ukraine.
Cuba is a perfect example of Russia having one set of rules for itself, and then demanding that everyone else abide by different ones.
The argument is fatuous. You’re totally right; it’s epic double standards from Moscow.
The Russian presence in Cuba was at the invitation of the Cuban regime. America had a reason to escalate over Russian nukes being parked near its borders. But it had no mandate to start a hot war over Soviets simply using Cuba as an outpost and a holiday destination.
Russia has no NATO nukes on its borders. It’s parked its nukes right up to the NATO border though. NATO in Ukraine was supporting Ukraine’s defences at Ukraine’s invitation, while Ukraine was supporting NATO missions that had nothing to do with Russia at all.
The only military threat posed to Russia from Ukraine was, Ukraine had security guarantees in the Budapest Memorandum that allowed Ukraine to call on the USA and UK in the event that Russia violated the agreement.
“ So what? Kiev seems to be quite concerned as of late by multiple missile attacks.”
Of course they are concerned about attacks on civilians and energy infrastructure by missiles. Who wouldn’t be concerned about that?
The Russian Army & Air Force hasn’t given them much reason for concern. They have been nice enough to leave the Ukes a lot of weapons behind as they run away, though.
What happens if, oh lets say, an underwater communication cable is severed from Europe to the U.S.? Perhaps retaliation for a perceived proxy war by the U.S. and Nato.
What happens if banking goes down for awhile? Financial transactions? What would happen to the stock market?
We do not need to be involved. Let the Germans, Belgians, French, Italians deal with their problem. Why is it the United States bares the majority of the burden in treasure and blood?
It wasn’t simply the Cuban “missile” crisis. Intelligence monitored the build up of Soviet military infrastructure and movement of supplies into Cuba before the detection of missiles.
We refused to allow a Soviet military presence 90 miles from our shore even without the evidence of missiles.
Bay of Pigs occurred around April 1961. Missile crisis around Oct 1962.
“ Why is it the United States bares the majority of the burden in treasure and blood?”
We haven’t done any bleeding so far. I doubt that we will unless they attack a NATO nation.
>>We haven’t done any bleeding so far. I doubt that we will unless they attack a NATO nation<<
Good grief! We have intelligence and special operations on the ground in Ukraine, don’t be naive to think otherwise.
“ Good grief! We have intelligence and special operations on the ground in Ukraine, don’t be naive to think otherwise.”
To think any US troops might be in a position to engage with Russian forces is idiotic.
>>To think any US troops might be in a position to engage with Russian forces is idiotic.<<
American lives will be lost or have already been lost and we will never even know about it. To think we have no boots on the ground in Ukraine is naive. Who in sam hell do you think is training Ukrainian soldiers to use sophisticated weapons supplied by America and or NATO?
We pour billions of dollars of weapons into this country and simply give them a handbook...good luck y’all. It doesn’t work that way. We have special operations and CIA there training and providing intelligence real time.
Sorry, not trying to insult anyone, its just reality.
This is a proxy war. We will not engage directly with Russian forces. Not yet anyway.
It IS American intelligence, weaponry helping to kill Russian soldiers. The Russians aren’t stupid. They are well aware of who is driving this conflict.
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