BJK: "N.A.T.O. makes us part of Europe,"
SmokingJoe: "Nope.
Not even close.
Check the map."
Here's the map of NATO. You might notice NATO includes Alaska::
SmokingJoe: "That's the problem right there.
We have no business making massive, out of whack, totally far above proportion contributions to a bunch of the richest continent on the planet, even as Germany continues to register nice budget surpluses even as we work ourselves into great debt and poverty for big chunks of our propulsion."
So here are the real numbers -- US GDP (nominal) is six times larger than Germany's.
In 2020 Germany's federal budget deficit was around $225 billion -- in US terms that's about $1.4 trillion.
In 2021 Germany ran a federal budget deficit of $180 billion -- in US terms that's $1.1 trillion.
In 2022 Germans expect their deficit to total $90 billion -- over $half a trillion in US terms.
The US federal deficit was $2.8 trillion in 2021, projected at $1.4 trillion in 2022.
Future US deficits are projected to average around $1.8 trillion.
Bottom line: Germany, like many other countries has been running very large budget deficits since 2020.
SmokingJoe: "Check the homeless camps in San Francisco etc.
NATO should have been banned or massively reduced after the Warsaw Pact was desolved."
Homeless camps in San Francisco are a function of local and California state politics, they have nothing to do with Federal budgets.
NATO, by my count, since 1990 has conducted 20 operations in 14 countries and seas, including: Serbia, Bosnia, Adriatic Sea (blockade) Yugoslavia, Herzegovina, Kosovo, Northern Macedonia, USA airspace (after 9/11/2001), Mediterranean Sea (WOT), Afghanistan, Turkey (air defense), Pakistan (humanitarian), Indian Ocean (anti-pirates) and Libya (no-fly zone).
All were multinational operations, most in response to UN resolutions.
Iraq included both NATO and non-nation allies.
Since 1949 NATO has expanded 10 times, five of those since 1991.
Every expansion has been voluntary:
SmokingJoe: "We HAVE to stop pouring borrowed money into Ukraine pit hole.
We have ZERO responsibility for the corrupt, sleazy , woke Ukraine regime."
Our responsibility comes as a signatory to the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, as the leader of NATO and, arguably since it was our inexcusable weakness in the Afghanistan skedaddle which directly provoked madman Putin's invasion -- we helped make it and break it, we should help fix it.
Your words, "corrupt, sleazy, woke" certainly define the Biden administration and madman Putin's dictatorship in Russia.
I've seen no evidence those words describe anybody in Ukraine.
SmokingJoe: "Let the Europeans take care of their own messes.
We've spent too much money fighting wars to protect Europe.
They have plenty of money now.
Let them look after themselves now for a change."
By my count Europeans have contributed about 40% of total aid to Ukraine.
That roughly corresponds to the EU GDP compared to the USA GDP.
The US would be foolish beyond all foolishness to scrap our NATO alliance at a time when it most serves our interests in blocking madman Putin's imperialist ambitions in Ukraine.
Sorry, I know our leaders are abjectly stupid, but even they are not that stupid, FRiend.
Here's the map of NATO. You might notice NATO includes Alaska:: Again, NATO does NOT make America a part of Europe like you claimed.
And 2, Ukraine is not even a part of NATO.
We have ZERO obligations to waste $70 billion of money that we borrowed on a country like Ukraine.
So here are the real numbers — US GDP (nominal) is six times larger than Germany's.
Irrelevant.
Doesn't change the fact that Ukraine is NOT our obligation, and Ukraine is not a part of NATO, and its not up to America to go squandering vast amounts of borrowed money on yet another European country to save them in yet another war.
Let the Europeans sort out their own mess.
Homeless camps in San Francisco are a function of local and California state politics, they have nothing to do with Federal budgets.
That $70 Billion we are wasting on Ukraine, would get a home for every single homeless person in San Francisco and the whole of California and more.
You see, those are OUR citizens versus Ukraine who are not our citizens, don't pay American taxes and to whom we owe ZERO obligations.
Our responsibility comes as a signatory to the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, as the leader of NATO and, arguably since it was our inexcusable weakness in the Afghanistan skedaddle which directly provoked madman Putin's invasion — we helped make it and break it, we should help fix it.
No it doesn't.
I had a look at the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. I did not see any part that said we should borrow tens of billions of dollars we don't have to save Ukraine's sorry butt, if they get themselves into yet another war.
Its nonsense for Zelensky to keep demanding we pay for his war and for rebuilding his country.
Let him go mooch on someone else for a change and go take a bloody jump.
Your words, “corrupt, sleazy, woke” certainly define the Biden administration and madman Putin's dictatorship in Russia.
I've seen no evidence those words describe anybody in Ukraine. You must be living on Mars if you missed all the news about corruption in Ukraine and corruption involving Joe and Hunter Biden in Ukraine over the past 8 years. You missed the Hunter Biden laptop too?
By my count Europeans have contributed about 40% of total aid to Ukraine.
That roughly corresponds to the EU GDP compared to the USA GDP.
You are totally missing the point.
US contribution to ANY war in Ukraine should be exactly ZERO.
We've wasted enough money fighting wars in Europe since WWI and WW@. Let the Europeans take care of themselves for a change.
The US would be foolish beyond all foolishness to scrap our NATO alliance at a time when it most serves our interests in blocking madman Putin's imperialist ambitions in Ukraine.
Again, Ukraine is NOT a part of NATO.
And NATO itself is long past its sell by date after the Warsaw Pact was disbanded.
Its the height of stupidity to squander $70 Billion and counting on yet another war in Europe, when we have serious economic problems at home right now.
Sorry, I know our leaders are abjectly stupid, but even they are not that stupid, FRiend.
Stupid is wasting VAST sums of our money on some country in Eastern Europe that we have no alliance with or commitment to, while leaving our own borders unprotected and taken over by Mexican drug lords.