[BroJoeK]

SmokinJoe: "They were still 50 wars fought by Ukraine up to 1349.
They've been fighting bloody wars for a long time, even before America was founded."

We Americans fought bloody wars for a long time, even before our Founding in 1776 -- i.e., the French and Indian War.
Did that fact give the Japanese a "right" to attack Pearl Harbor in 1941, or terrorists a "right" to attack on September 11, 2001?
In both cases we joined with foreign friends & allies to fight back.

In what ways are those attacks on us different from Ukrainians being not just attacked, but invaded by Russians?
It is a simple fact of history that unprovoked aggression, if not defeated will be repeated, bigger and badder the next time.

SmokinJoe: "You mean like FDR was elected 5 times followed by Truman after which we amended the constitution?"

FDR was elected in 1932 (56% of vote), 1936 (60% of vote), 1940 (55% of vote) and 1944 (53%) -- 4 times, not 5.
In each case he had serious opposition and after 1936 declining majorities and electoral college votes.
As a result the US ratified the 22nd Amendment in 1951, term-limiting presidents to two terms.

Putin was "elected" in 2000 (53% of vote), 2004 (71% of vote), 2008 (effectively 73% of vote), 2012 (64% of vote), 2018 (77% of vote).
In most elections Putin's majority increased.
As a result, Russia changed its election laws removing term limits on Putin.

SmokinJoe: "The US currently has a DEBT of a massive $31 TRILLION at the Federal level alone, even excluding social security. And every year our budget deficits keep getting worse. We haven't had a balanced budget for DECADES."

And yet, in years past the US has both balanced, or nearly balanced, the Federal budget while at the same time paying for much higher levels of national defense, relative to GDP.

There's plenty of money to pay for a robust national defense if only we put an end to squandering $trillions on corrupt Democrat vote-buying schemes.

SmokinJoe: "You can't go borrowing over a Trillion dollars every year to make ends meet and then spend over $70 Billion on a super corrupt country which is far away in Europe."

Like I said, there's plenty of money for national defense if we put an end to Democrats' corrupt vote-buying schemes.
As for Ukraine being allegedly "super corrupt", I've seen no evidence they are even a bit more corrupt than our own politicians, and lots of evidence that Ukrainians as a people are both less corrupt and more courageous than Russians.

SmokinJoe: "How much have the Germans spent on the Ukraine war so far?
Germany has budget surplus, no?"

European countries combined have spent over $32 billion on support for Ukraine.
Germans have contributed significantly to the total.
As for Germans' historical balanced budgets -- they may not be quite so balanced this year.

SmokinJoe: "Got nothing to do with Chamberlain."

Everything to do with 1938 Chamberlain in Munich if we abandon Ukraine to its fate as Chamberlain did to Czechoslovakia.

SmokinJoe: "How do you think the British would have fared without Billions of dollars in US money and arms and soldiers to help them out?
Same as Ukraine is DEMANDING from America now."

Exactly right -- we helped out the Brits for exactly the same reasons we now help the Ukes.

SmokinJoe: "Ukraine are not even in Nato.
Ukraine has never been an American ally.
We have zero security commitments to Ukraine."

All of that was also true of the Brits in 1917 and 1941, indeed, least we forget: we had previously fought two major wars against the Brits.
So not only were Brits not our allies, they were former enemies!
And yet, we went to their aid in 1917 and 1941 for many reasons, some quite noble others more... mundane.

But the basic reason was, we didn't want the Kaiser's or Hitler's armies to win, just as we don't want Putin to win today.

SmokinJoe: "They can go to hell as far as I am concerned."

We will certainly burn in h*ll -- in this world as well as the next -- if we let the naked aggressions of madman Putin & others succeed and feed on their past successes to launch yet more aggressions.

They have to be stopped -- somewhere, sometime, somehow, or the next ones will be bigger and harder to stop.

That's the lesson of history.
Learn it or die.

[SmokingJoe]

We Americans fought bloody wars for a long time, even before our Founding in 1776 — i.e., the French and Indian War.

Every country is free to fight all the wars they want, but we DON'T have to pay for every foreign war fought by tinpot, woke dictators like Zelensky, who has banned all the big opposition parties in parliament and taken over all he big media.< Ukraine can fight all the wars they want, as long as the whiny Zelensky doesn't keep DEMANDING that we pat for his wars./p>

Did that fact giv, ever demanding e the Japanese a “right” to attack Pearl Harbor in 1941, or terrorists a “right” to attack on September 11, 2001?
In both cases we joined with foreign friends & allies to fight back.

So tell me, just how many billions of free dollars did we receive from these “foreign friends” you are so fond of?
Answer? ZERO dollars.

Did that fact give the Japanese a “right” to attack Pearl Harbor in 1941, or terrorists a “right” to attack on September 11, 2001?
In both cases we joined with foreign friends & allies to fight back.

Nope. But then we spent over a Trillion dollars and lost plenty of lives fighting wars to punish those who attacked us. I don't recall us getting any free money from Germany or France or anybody then. These European countries are much older than America is, why the heck do we have to constantly pay for their wars they they get into?

[SmokingJoe]

And yet, in years past the US has both balanced, or nearly balanced, the Federal budget while at the same time paying for much higher levels of national defense, relative to GDP

We are in debt to the tune of $31 Trillion. Adding in social security makes it even worse.
We are running deficits of Trillions of dollars every year.
Do we ave money to waste on Ukraine right now?
Nope.
Not to mention Ukraine is not and has never been an ally of the United Sates. They are not part of NATO or any defense organization we belong to. Right now, this is just a way for the "Big Guy" to get his normal 10%.
Ukraine is not and has never been our responsibility.
Let them go to their Europeans pals to look after them if they must beg for money and arms from somewhere.

[SmokingJoe]

Like I said, there's plenty of money for national defense if we put an end to Democrats’ corrupt vote-buying schemes.

There is NO MONEY when a country is borrowing over a Trillion dollars every year to meet their spending requirements, which we are.
Can you get that into your head?

As for Ukraine being allegedly “super corrupt”, I've seen no evidence they are even a bit more corrupt than our own politicians, and lots of evidence that Ukrainians as a people are both less corrupt and more courageous than Russians.

Ukraine IS corrupt. Read about Hunter Biden's laptop.
As for we having corruption in America too, well we are not getting tens of billions of free dollars from anybody.
Ukraine IS getting tens of billions from America.
Who pays the piper calls the tune.

[SmokingJoe]

European countries combined have spent over $32 billion on support for Ukraine.
Germans have contributed significantly to the total.

Europeans should pay for ALL their wars themselves IN FULL.
They cannot keep sucking on the American teat forever. Enough is enough already!

As for Germans’ historical balanced budgets — they may not be quite so balanced this year

So what?
We ave had budget deficits for DECADES so whats so great about Germany having any deficit this year (if they get a deficit at all).

[SmokingJoe]

Everything to do with 1938 Chamberlain in Munich if we abandon Ukraine to its fate as Chamberlain did to Czechoslovakia.

Tell that to the Europeans. Let them defend and take care of themselves for a change.

xactly right — we helped out the Brits for exactly the same reasons we now help the Ukes

Don't even think of comparing Ukraine to Britain.
We've had strong relationship with Britain for hundreds of years.
Britain was the mother country of America. We speak English and our judiciary, goverment, laws etc are based on the British ones.
We have no historical relationship with Ukraine.

We will certainly burn in h*ll — in this world as well as the next — if we let the naked aggressions of madman Putin & others succeed and feed on their past successes to launch yet more aggressions.

They have to be stopped — somewhere, sometime, somehow, or the next ones will be bigger and harder to stop.

Nobody's stopping the hapless Europeans from “saving” Ukraine if they can.
They can go ahead and save Ukraine if they want, JUST NOT AT OUR EXPENSE!

That's the lesson of history.
Learn it or die.

What history do you have of a nuclear war between the world's # 1 and # 2 nuclear powers?